[ SECRET POST #5173 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5173 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.
[No Such Thing As a Fish (podcast)]



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02.
[Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy]


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03.
[Luxuria Superbia]


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04.


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05.


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06. [SPOILERS]



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07. [SPOILERS for Torment: Tides of Numenera]



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08. [WARNING for discussion of assault/abuse]



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09. [WARNING for underage]



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10. [WARNING for discussion of assault/abuse]


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #740.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://i.imgur.com/BYAtym3.png

[(Anonymous)]

I'm trans and I agree.

[(Anonymous)]

Not a big fan of that movie but Monty Python will always make me giggle. IDGAF

[(Anonymous)]

As with all humor it's a very "depends on how it's done" imo

[(Anonymous)]

I don't want to judge the idea as a whole based on somebody mentioning it tangentially on f!s

but that seems ridiculous

[(Anonymous)]

I grew up with panto, so there was a Dame and the principal boy was played by a girl. The Dame was always the best thing in the panto.

Panto led to my love of slapstick and farce, there's often a crossdressing element in them and it'd make me sad if these things went away.

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen commentary before about how drag is viewed differently in the US because we don't have the Panto tradition. That a Brit's first encounter with a performer in another gender's dress could very well be in a wholesome, family friendly Panto...while an American would first encounter it in a way that was coded as secret, forbidden or cast in a negative light.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yeah, but British society is currently absolutely riddled with transphobia, so...

[(Anonymous)]

Serious question: is drag considerated transphobic?

[(Anonymous)]

serious answer: there is a minefield surrounding every and any interpretation, ranging from absolute no to absolute yes and everything in between. the fact that there are trans queens (both mtf and ftm) who consider drag to be wholly separate from their daily identity as well as queens who didn't realize they were trans until drag...there is no one right or real answer.

[(Anonymous)]

It depends on who, what, where, why, and how. It's complicated.

[(Anonymous)]

This is the movie that got me started on cross-dressing and men that may not be hetero. This, and "Bosom Buddies".

...Oh, shut up. Leave me alone. I don't want to hear it.

[(Anonymous)]

I love Some Like it Hot so much!i haven't watched Bosom Buddies in a long while, but I remember liking that too.

[(Anonymous)]

I used to like Bosom Buddies but I think...maybe that one hasn't aged as well. There was an attempt at a reboot, but it flopped. The central premise, that they need to dress in drag to get an apartment in a women only building, is a dead trope to begin with.

[sabotabby]

Lindsay Ellis' latest video does a good job of talking about this imo. She mentions this movie as a positive example.

I think you might like/be interested in this video

[(Anonymous)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHTMidTLO60

It shows a shift from the kind of stuff mentioned in your secret to current works. I think you may enjoy it!

Re: I think you might like/be interested in this video

[(Anonymous)]

na

I assumed this secret was made BECAUSE of that video.

Re: I think you might like/be interested in this video

[(Anonymous)]

If so, they seem to have a different interpretation? Like, what I got from it is that stereotypes and humor-only portrayals have their issues, there was a very sinister shift in the portrayal of the trans community.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, the one that still gets me all the time is Team Rocket. I feel like I should be offended that they keep putting James in dresses for laughs, but James just does not gaf and totally leans into it, and Jessie is totally cool with it and plays along, and so it's not like it's seen as humiliating the characters. They're clearly having fun!

I worry that people might think that gender-nonconformity is just comic relief or something, but then some of my trans friends actively hold up James as one of their trans icons, so... I dunno.

(And I mean... "Prepare for trouble, and a dance!" "I'm wearing tights instead of pants!" ...How can you not laugh at something so dumb?)

[(Anonymous)]

Idk, I may be a little too old but I don't get kids of nowadays' trans discourse. If you are genuinely offended by people of a certain gender wearing clothes coded as being "for" the opposite gender... Please, get a life? Everyone should wear whatever clothes they wish to?

Having said this, I'm pretty... Unhappy-with-the-idea-of-gender-itself and I love James!

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT and not really a kids-these-days age, but I feel it's usually less an issue with clothing being gender coded than the fact that it's often specifically gender coded to garner laughs.

Whereas when James wears stuff that's usually female-coded, it's not to make fun of the fact that he's 'omg wearing girls clothes' (that I've noticed), if that makes sense?

[(Anonymous)]

(Initial commenting anon)

Yeah, that was the thing. I have seen a couple trans friends point out instances of "oh ho ho saying this woman is really a man or putting a man in a dress, ha ha, truly comic genius", and it kind of seems like the "running gag" of James in coded female clothing (and we won't even get into the bikini contest) might have been intended that way, at least at the start...

But now it's just one of the odd quirks about them, not the slightest bit shocking or even unexpected, and they're clearly enjoying it rather than being embarrassed. And I mean, there was the time James disguised himself as Jessie for NON-comic reasons, so I (also coming to realize that I am not as gender-binary as I assumed for the first few decades of my life because I didn't have any explanation of it) am at this point taking it as the two of them having fun and not giving a crap about gender roles, whether or not it was originally intended for laughs.

[(Anonymous)]

Most of the tension between trans people and drag queens is about what's said on stage, not what is worn. Some people use the mask of drag to say really ugly things about cis and trans women. But as far as I know, no one is dragging Billy Porter for doing magazine spreads in designer gowns (not the least because he uses his clout to promote trans peers.)

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, some drag acts I’ve seen rely very heavily on extremely misogynistic humor.

Like, I understand how drag is sort of its own critique or satire of gender roles or society’s idea of femininity in some ways but there’s a couple performers that take it to a place that seems hateful and bitter towards women themselves. Honestly kind of reminds me of some mean girls I grew up with who bullied me for being black while appropriating our slang and hair styles...

Unsurprisingly, two of the performers I’m thinking of had very derogatory things to say about trans women outside of their performances as well.

Disclaimer, of course, to say I know far more Queens who are kind, loving, talented people who don’t

[meadowphoenix]

I feel like if the movie treats the drag as "clothing sometimes has a social gender" more than "wearing clothing makes you a certain gender" (which is a fine distinction I know but I think there's a continuum) it's usually fine.

My problem with some like it hot is that it really does play up that men in drag are using social conventions to trick women by manipulating how women trust and...no for a lot of reasons. I still like it, but I really hate that aspect.