fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5205 ]

[ SECRET POST #5205 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5205 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[When They Cry]

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03.

[Shadow and Bone on Netflix, based on the books by Leigh Bardugo]

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04.

[Word of Honor]

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05.

[I Am Still Alive]

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06.

[Car Talk]

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07.

[A/B/O]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 24 secrets from Secret Submission Post #745.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I finally googled it last night after seeing it mentioned here (never seen it actually in use in my fandoms) and kind of feel like I should tag everything I write with it, considering how many reviews I get that are like "omg you made me cry in public" due to my narrative inclinations.

Actually kinda wish I could tag my entire life with it. -_-

FYI, it's generally not used for things that are just dark, angsty, or tragic. I'd say that if you're not into it a DD:DNE fic is more likely to make you feel sick and generally awful than "omg, I'm crying in public!"

NAYRT, but I've seen the tag on Hurt/No Comfort and Dark!Character fic fairly frequently. I'm guessing it depends heavily on the fandom. If your audience is used to getting The Lion King and you're throwing straight-up Hamlet at them, DD:DNE may be warranted.

Strongly, strongly seconding this. Like, truly, I cannot second it enough and I'd like to shout it from the rooftops. A lot of people misunderstand the tag. If you are using the DD:DNE tag just to denote dark or painful content, you are using it wrong. The people you have seen using it that way were using it wrong.

Parent/child incest and it's horrible? Not DD:DNE.
Parent/child incest that's erotic/romantic/adorable? Yes DD:DNE.
Graphic torture scene? Not DD:DNE.
Torture scene designed to be erotic/arousing? Yes DD:DNE.
Forced feminization as a fucked up thing that is upsetting thing that needs to stop? Not DD:DNE.
Forced Feminization as a kink? Yes DD:DNE.

That... seems to be deeply misunderstanding the whole DD:DNE trope.

Like, the punchline to the original scene is "I don't know what I expected." The dead dove was a dove that was dead. It wasn't a dove that was slowly tortured to death and then left to rot in the sun for a few days before being put into the bag and refrigerated.

The point of the entire thing is that you were told there were bad things here, so don't be surprised when the things are bad. Only using it to describe bad things that are far, far worse than what you would have expected based on being told that the things were bad is not surprising, given the attitudes of fandom, but definitely disappointing.

Actually, you are misunderstanding the tag. Look upthread, there's an anon who actually links to the place where the term was coined. This isn't that hard.

DA

The term comes from a TV show. It's a widely circulated gif for years. Some random Tumblr user's theory about it is NOT the origin of the term, it's just one person's opinion.

AYRT is right, though. Dark, potentially upsetting contents already have their specific tags, and if they are treated as the reader would expect them to be treated (i.e. as dark, upsetting contents) there is no need for further elaboration. There's no "I don't know what I expected there".

No, they're not right. It literally means "Pay attention to the tags and warnings". "There will be no moralizing or social commentary, and this won't play out in a realistic way for the sake of kink" is another thing DD:DNE CAN mean, but it's not any more correct than the obvious "Don't ignore the tags and complain to me about the fic".

(Anon who posed the question) Okay, that makes a bit more sense.

I was in part thinking of all the kink meme fills I did involving death/rape/mental illness/etc. and later found out the person who requested them had to stop reading my fill because apparently they were more detailed than they were expecting to get, and judging from the reviews after I posted to AO3, other people felt the same way. :P

(or actually I should say, not the anon who posed the ORIGINAL question, but this subthread under the original question)

...Now I'm reading the other responses to this and... I dunno? I guess that also makes sense?

Eh. I tag my stuff with the appropriate warnings already. Probably after a few such fics from me, if DD:DNE is warranted on this stuff, people figured that out.

A whole lot of people ITT are deeply mistaken about this tag. The best way to think of it is: the tag isn't redundant. It denotes something that can't be denoted with other tags. That's literally why it exists. Because there was a need for it.

So like, you don't need a DD:DNE tag for grooming and underage sex, because that's literally what the "grooming" "underage" tags are for. However, the DD:DNE tag is extremely useful and aptly used if the grooming and the underage sex in your fic are the kink. Because the use of grooming and underage tags don't tell you that information. They only tell you the subject matter, not how it's handled.

DD:DNE is extremely useful because plenty of people will be fine with reading dark content treated realistically, but will be very, very squicked by that same basic subject matter if it's handled as a kink or otherwise not treated realistically. So they may see a fic with some dark tags and not be sure whether to read it or not, because they don't know how that content will be handled in the fic. For instance, I will read a fic where James Moriarty rapes John Watson as an act of cruelty and be totally fine with reading that. But I am suuuper squicked by rape kink, so if Moriarty rapes John Watson as an act of cruelty but the way it's written in the fic is meant to be titillating, then that's a huge no from me, dog.

If DD:DNE merely meant "heed the tags," as the people in this thread mistakenly believe, then it would be redundant. What makes it useful is that it's not about what content you can expect from the fic, it's about how you can expect that content to be handled.

OP of thread

This is what I thought, thank you!

Very well put!!!

I don't follow your logic at all.

The Tumblr post doesn't have a long list of rules like that. It's much more free-form. All it means is that the author doesn't moralize.

Here's the actual text of the post:

That post doesn't actually say anything like that! All it says is that it has the tags on the post, the tags accurately describe what's in the fic, and the author doesn't moralize about it. There's no long list of rules of what

Here's the full text: Sometimes, in fandom, we just want to write id-tastic fic that rolls around in tropes that might be viewed as problematic. But we don’t want to address the problematic side of things in this particular fanwork; we just want to roll around and wallow.

It is considered courteous to give readers a heads-up via use of AO3 tags. I propose a tag that signals that a given fanwork is for rolling around, not giving a measured evaluation of anything. The MCU has carved out a space for this sort of fic with the “HYDRA Trash Party” tag, for which I commend them. Trash Party is a bit too specific to cover all of the ground I’m thinking of here, though; I propose “Dead Dove: Do Not Eat.”

For those of you not familiar with Arrested Development, Michael Bluth finds a paper bag in the freezer labeled “Dead Dove: Do Not Eat.” He opens the bag, finds a dead dove, and reacts as follows:
image

[gif of a white man saying “I don’t know what I expected” in a deadpan manner]

The “Dead Dove: Do Not Eat” tag would essentially be a “what it says on the tin” metatag, indicating “you see the tropes and concepts tagged here? they are going to appear in this fic. exactly as said. there will not necessarily be any subversion, authorial commentary condemning problematic aspects, or meditation on potential harm. this fic contains dead dove. if you proceed, you should expect to encounter it.”

EXACTLY.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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