fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #760 ]

[ SECRET POST #760 ]

⌈ Secret Post #760 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Battlestar Galactica]

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103.

[Anderson Cooper]

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104.

[Hayate the Combat Buttler, Nagi and the Student Council Trio]

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105.

[Smallville, Supernatural]

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106.

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107.

[Nabari no Ou]

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108.

[Heroes and 'Gute zeiten, Schlechte Zeiten']

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109.

[Hellboy 2]

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110.

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111.

[Bleighton]

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112. [repeat]

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113.

[Psych, Dexter]

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114. [repeat]

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115.

[Supernatural]

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116.

[High School Musical]

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117.

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118.

[PGSM RPFS Keiko KitagawaXAyaka Komatsu]

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119.

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120.

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121.

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122.

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123.

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124.

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125.

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126.

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127.

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128.

[resized, not repeat]

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129.

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130.

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131.

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132.

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133.

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134.

[Kimi wa Petto]

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135.

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136.

[Scrooged]

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137.

[Avatar]

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138.

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139.

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140.

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141.

[Ghostbusters]

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142.

[katemodern]

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143.

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144.

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145.

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146.

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147.

[The Terminator/T2: Judgment Day]

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148.

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149.

[Lordi]

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150.

[Left4Dead]

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151.

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152.

[Tokio Hotel]

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153.

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154.

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155.

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156.

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157.

[Phoenix Wright/Ace Attorney]

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158.

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159.

[Kodomo no Jikan]

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160.

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161.

[Avatar, Stormbenders]

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162.

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163.

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164.

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165.

[Friendly Hostility]

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166.

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167.

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168.

[Being Human]

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169.

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170.

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171.

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172.

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173. [not a secret]

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174.

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175.

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176.

[Hugh Laurie/Stephen Fry; House/Wilson]

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177.

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178.

Notes:

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Secrets Left to Post: 11 pages, 264 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

That's philosophical bullshit. You cannot just sit there and tell me mass-murderers like Stalin and Hitler weren't evil because they were "products of their environment". What the fuck man? Seriously.

Those men were evil and they show just how dark humans can get when they want to.

Everything is a result of the long, universal chain of cause and effect, and so are humans, their genes, and the experiences that form them. So yeah, free will is pretty much a joke.

No. Bullshit. Humans have free will. I have a choice of whether or not I will make this post, I have a choice as to whether or not I will turn this computer off and go outside. I have a choice as whether or not to procrastinate or actually do work.

All of those are actual choices that I can make. My decisions are not hardwired into my brain.

Unless you believe in God or something similarly supernatural, you can't defend the concept of freewill.

Thanks for sidestepping my point, anon.

I don't believe in God. Why should I have to believe in God to defend free will? People simply make choices. We are not hardwired to live the lives we do, we are not incapable of making choice.

So how is it that we lack free will?

1. The universe is either deterministic or random.
2. We are part of the universe.
3. Either we have free will or we don't.
4. Free will, unless you believe in something "outside of the Universe that transcends the realm of the physical into the spiritual", cannot exist in either a deterministic or random universe.

That's it.

Why can't there be free will inside a random system?

Because then you wouldn't have free will, your decisions would be random.

But that presupposes that everything in the universe is random. If the creation of the universe, etc is random, it doesn't mean that we, as people and a species are random in our action. For example, my action at this moment, to continue debating with you, is not a random act. It's a decision that I reached.

The creation of so many human inventions and institutions were not random (Well, some of them were), but based off of the work of others. I will allow that there are some elements of randomness within our little system, but it is not at all entirely random.

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(Anonymous) - 2009-02-03 23:21 (UTC) - Expand

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futurefirelord.livejournal.com - 2009-02-03 23:24 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-02-03 23:46 (UTC) - Expand

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dragoon1940.livejournal.com - 2009-02-03 23:51 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-02-04 00:07 (UTC) - Expand

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melengro.livejournal.com - 2009-02-04 01:00 (UTC) - Expand

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dragoon1940.livejournal.com - 2009-02-04 04:57 (UTC) - Expand

Unless the rules that govern your thought processes and consciousness are different from the randomized rules that govern the govern the actual physical universe, because that would allow not only free will, but the creation of order within a random system.

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dragoon1940.livejournal.com - 2009-02-03 23:33 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-02-04 00:21 (UTC) - Expand

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paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2009-02-04 00:27 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-02-04 00:33 (UTC) - Expand

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paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2009-02-04 00:42 (UTC) - Expand

Why can't we? Because you've aligned your premises in a neat little list to illustrate how they are obviously logical, and therefore completely true?

Im not defending any opinions expressed above, I simply want to discuss this one point:

'I have a choice of whether or not I will make this post'

At the risk of adding to the philosophical bullshit, can i ask How do you know? How do you know you have a choice?

If your argument is valid, then why do we even have a criminal justice system? If people are products of external forces and don't choose to do evil or good, then how can we convict anyone of a crime?

Because we were meant to have a criminal justice system, due to the context of human history. Obviously.

For merely pragmatic purposes, obviously. To prevent them from causing more damage to society AND to control other humans into don't committing crimes. Isn't this logical?

But if everything is either random or pre-determined, then how can we possibly "control" other people into not committing crimes?

Your logic is flawed, anon.

Because we were determined to look for the well-being of society. So we'll try to create an environment in which society is able to exist more peacefully.

You're grasping at straws here.

Or you simply do not understand what I'm typing.

By your own argument, everything is random or pre-determined. Thus, no matter how much we may try to make society a better place, we will never succeed because nothing we do will really affect how people behave.

We're part of the system. We don't try to make society a better place, a number of previous events made it so for us to act in order to make society a better place. We're not trying to control anything in the traditional sense. We're part of a giant chain of consequences.

Our existence may be random and we may make decisions based off of previous events, but that does not mean that we do not ultimately have a choice. I am not simply the end result of a giant chain of consequences. I am me.

Re: 110

(Anonymous) - 2009-02-04 00:24 (UTC) - Expand

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paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2009-02-04 00:44 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-02-04 01:13 (UTC) - Expand

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paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2009-02-04 01:40 (UTC) - Expand

Wouldn't that apply to your own opinions as well? If you were conditioned to have your opinions purely by external forces, why do you trust them one iota?

Because we were determined

By whom? If everything is random how can anything be determined? Is your argument that a creator put events into motion at random? Because that's what this phrase suggests.

That is the point. Either everything is random or everything is determined. And no, I never meant something like a creator. I meant something like natural selection. We were determined to act towards the well-being of society because that helps humanity survive. It's an instinct, so to speak.

Natural selection doesn't work like that.

Re: 110

melengro.livejournal.com - 2009-02-04 01:04 (UTC) - Expand

Fail logic is fail. by your own argument, controlling people is impossible because our decisions are either random or pre-determined. In this case, control is impossible as by your argument no one actually makes a decision. Things just happen. In such a system, control is a physical impossibility.

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