[ SECRET POST #763 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #763 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.
[Drake and Josh]


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103.


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104.
[BSG]


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105.


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106.


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107.
[Vampire Knight]


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108.
[Demons]


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109.


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110.
[Life]


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111.
[Roswell]


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112.
[Ga-Rei -Zero-]


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113.


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114.
[Sailor Moon]


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115.
[Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon]


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116.


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117.


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118.
[Persona 4]


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119.
[Ryan Ross; Panic! at the Disco]


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120.
[Persona 4]


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121.


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122.


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123.
[Bleach, Yoruichi]


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124.
[Celtic Thunder]


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125.


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126.
[Underworld Trilogy]


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127.


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128.
[Ursula, the Little Mermaid]


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129.
[Guiding Light]


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130.
[CyberSix]


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131.


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132.


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133.


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134.
[FT Island]


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135.


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136.
[Big Fat Quiz of the Year]


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137.


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138.


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139.
[Torchwood]


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140.


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141.


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142.


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143.
[Runaways, Karolina/Xavin]


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144.


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145.
[Simpsons, Rod and Todd]


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146.
[Joe Loves Crappy Movies (webcomic), Twilight]


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147.
[Utena]


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148.
[Doctor Who/RPS/Russell T. Davies/Benjamin Cook]


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149.
[The Munsters]


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150.
[Adventures of Pete and Pete]


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151.


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152.


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153.
[Jimi Hendrix/Janis Joplin]


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154.
[Taylor Lautner; Twilight Movies]


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155.
[FF13]


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156.


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157.


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158.
[Nick Swardson]


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159.


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160.


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161.


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162.


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163.
(Rachel Maddow, Susan Mikula, Keith Olbermann)


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164.


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165.


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166.


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167.


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168.


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169.
[Earth: Final Conflict, Da'an]


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170.


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171.


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172.
[Ouran, Persona 4]


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173.



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[likespring.livejournal.com]

whut .. assumed straight men can be shipped or considered to be shipped with guys, but lesbians can't be written romantically/sexually with guys?

Pretty much, yeah. At least for now, because if you haven't noticed, the environment and general representation for straights and gays is not the same.

Also, see word assumed, which you yourself use. For the most part, straight folks, whether real or fictional, are assumed straight. They rarely come outright and say they're straight. Probably because they don't have to, because straight is the default and that's what everyone assumes you are unless you say otherwise. Point being, it's possible, theoretically, some of these people are bisexual/bi-curious/whatever and just haven't said so. On the other hand, gay folks usually say outright that they are gay, going back to the point that they have to least people assume we're all straight. So in many cases, "straight" is an assumption whereas "gay" is a fact.

Secondly, because of this assumption and how society works, there also leaves more room for self-exploration and realization. When people are growing up, we're treated as if we're straight, the default. As such, someone who says they are straight rarely spends the time to really examine their feelings and such. That doesn't mean we should doubt everyone who says they're straight, but it's true. Again, on the other hand, because of this, gay folks in general spend quite some time first feeling different, then realizing what that difference is, thinking about it, thinking about how to come out to people, coming out, etc. For a lot of people, it is a process that takes includes quite a bit of introspection. It is a lot more likely that someone who's 30-something will come out as gay than someone who's 30-something will go "oops, I didn't mean to come out as gay! I'm really bi/straight!"

Thirdly, ever heard of reparative therapy? Or maybe "she's not really a lesbian, she just hasn't found the right man yet"? No one seriously says that to straight people. No one is shipping straight people off to camps or therapy to turn them gay. But people do try to turn gay people straight in real life, and for some people doing the same thing in fanfiction hits a little bit too close to home.

Does that make sense?

The anon above me also brings up a good point I hadn't thought of before. Rachel Maddow isn't just a lesbian, but it is a part of who she is, and what she has done is an accomplishment. Writing fic about one straight dude in a gay relationship doesn't change the fact that news is dominated by straight men. (It's sort of like when people say "BARACK OBAMA IS HALF-WHITE TOO!!!1" okay, yeah, sure he is. But it's not like it's a miracle for a white dude to win the presidency.)

It may "just fanon," and I think it's fine to think they're cute together, because they are. But it's not just fanfiction because you still can't be just gay. It's still a political issue -- not just homosexuality as an abstract, but gay people -- without a level playing ground.

[(Anonymous)]

And treating people with a double standard in regards to shipping is going to make it better? If anything, it's setting people on an equal setting, saying we don't really give a damn about gender divides or orientation divides, which is really how it should be.

[likespring.livejournal.com]

No, because if two people/groups are not on equal ground, treating them in one respect online like they are, and ignoring the inequality or what causes it, does not change that fact that the inequality still exists.

Like I've said in other comments, I'm not going to harass someone for writing Keith/Rachel. I don't like it, but whatever. However, acting like "if anything" it's actually fixing the problems mentioned above is silly.

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

I get where you're coming from, but it's FANFICTION. And fanfiction is a writing-out of one's daydreams.

I know the punditry and fandom are about politics, but to get political about fanfiction--that's just self-righteous wank.

I'd like to see more Rachel femmeslash because Rachel IS a lesbian and should damned well be treated as such. In fact, I didn't like K/R for the longest time. But the K/R fic that I've read has been so awesome and cracky and well-written that I came to love the pairing.

[likespring.livejournal.com]

I know the punditry and fandom are about politics, but to get political about fanfiction--that's just self-righteous wank.

No, it's not. In the long run, I don't really care if people read or write (romantic) Keith/Rachel. I don't like it personally, but I'm not going to harass someone for doing so.

However, that doesn't mean that there aren't real issues involved. There is merit to discussing whatever kind of politics are involved in fandom, whether it's homophobia or racism or sexism or what have you. I do think there are valid reasons for not liking/writing such fanfiction that are rooted in very real issues, just as with other issues in fandom.

You or others may not agree or want to participate in such discussions, but that doesn't mean talking about it is just "self-righteous wank." Puhlease.

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

Okay. I can kinda see where you're coming from. But there's a very thin line between fandom discussing fandom, and self-righteous wank. You've got a foot on each side of the line.

[likespring.livejournal.com]

I do? lol, okay.

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

You have indeed.

[sexonastick.livejournal.com]

We don't really even have fandoms in common (except for the interest in politics) and I still want to friend you based solely on how refreshing your response is. Too much willful flaunting of privilege on LJ lately and it's hard for people to keep their cool in response -- especially when being told that thinking about the things you write is somehow wanky. (Yes, in fandom of all places, it's better to pretend that words have no power or meaning. Um, then why are people bothering to write?)

It's possible to dislike the connotations of something and to be willing to engage in a discussion about that without actively boycotting it, but a lot of people who don't want their "squee harshed" in any way shape or form seem unable to grasp that. If you say anything that might make fandom feel even slightly less liberal than it imagines itself to be, people always think you're doing it just to be an asshole.

[likespring.livejournal.com]

Thank you. ♥ It's nice to know I'm not alone in here in my thoughts.

I really shouldn't be surprised, I guess. Fandom has a loooong, well-known history of not wanting their squee harshed, refusing to talk about anything in the real world no matter how it relates to fandom. But I will always fail to understand why it's so bad to talk about these things (god forbid we do something other than fangirl over how hot Actor X is).

[(Anonymous)]

that's just self-righteous wank.

No, it's pointing out sketchy issues in fandom. Which, as we have all seen illustrated so well, gets people really defensive. As the old commentary went "the personal is political".

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

You've proven my point quite well. I'm off to ignore this wank thread now.

It's been, it's been fun, but it's not been real fun. :)

[likespring.livejournal.com]

No, noooo, don't you know that anything that makes people go "LA LA I DON'T WANNA HEAR IT" is automatically wank, no matter how it's conducted?

[(Anonymous)]

No, it's pointing out sketchy issues in fandom.

Thank God someone is finally dealing with the ISSUES!

[hector-rashbaum.livejournal.com]

Hi, I think I love you <3

[likespring.livejournal.com]

Aw, I ♥ you too!

[nenya_kanadka]

This. Especially this:

Or maybe "she's not really a lesbian, she just hasn't found the right man yet"? No one seriously says that to straight people. No one is shipping straight people off to camps or therapy to turn them gay. But people do try to turn gay people straight in real life, and for some people doing the same thing in fanfiction hits a little bit too close to home.

That's probably the shortest summary I can do of why this bothers me. It's because in RL there are people who would tell Rachel that she needs to not be gay and she's wrong to be who she is--in fact there's more or less an entire cottage industry dedicated to telling lesbians that. Whereas nobody's going around seriously saying that straight men or women are bad for being straight. Fandom's a place we can go to escape, but if the escape looks so much like the bad parts of the real world, well...that's kind of hard to deal with.

(I don't say no one should EVER write Keith/Rachel. It can work. But if the majority of Rachel fic is het, that bothers me. C'mon, slash her with Tina Fey or something! *fans self*)