[ SECRET POST #763 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #763 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.
[Drake and Josh]


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103.


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104.
[BSG]


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105.


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106.


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107.
[Vampire Knight]


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108.
[Demons]


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109.


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110.
[Life]


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111.
[Roswell]


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112.
[Ga-Rei -Zero-]


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113.


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114.
[Sailor Moon]


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115.
[Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon]


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116.


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117.


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118.
[Persona 4]


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119.
[Ryan Ross; Panic! at the Disco]


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120.
[Persona 4]


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121.


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122.


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123.
[Bleach, Yoruichi]


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124.
[Celtic Thunder]


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125.


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126.
[Underworld Trilogy]


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127.


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128.
[Ursula, the Little Mermaid]


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129.
[Guiding Light]


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130.
[CyberSix]


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131.


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132.


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133.


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134.
[FT Island]


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135.


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136.
[Big Fat Quiz of the Year]


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137.


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138.


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139.
[Torchwood]


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140.


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141.


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142.


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143.
[Runaways, Karolina/Xavin]


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144.


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145.
[Simpsons, Rod and Todd]


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146.
[Joe Loves Crappy Movies (webcomic), Twilight]


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147.
[Utena]


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148.
[Doctor Who/RPS/Russell T. Davies/Benjamin Cook]


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149.
[The Munsters]


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150.
[Adventures of Pete and Pete]


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151.


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152.


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153.
[Jimi Hendrix/Janis Joplin]


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154.
[Taylor Lautner; Twilight Movies]


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155.
[FF13]


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156.


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157.


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158.
[Nick Swardson]


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159.


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160.


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161.


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162.


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163.
(Rachel Maddow, Susan Mikula, Keith Olbermann)


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164.


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165.


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166.


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167.


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168.


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169.
[Earth: Final Conflict, Da'an]


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170.


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171.


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172.
[Ouran, Persona 4]


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173.



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

YOUR COMMENT IS FULL OF HETEROSEXISM, SORRY.

[(Anonymous)]

... You do realize that heterosexuals are shown on television a lot, while lesbians aren't? And that gay people are generally oppressed, ignored or ridiculed, while heterosexuals aren't?

There's a reason for that double standard-- because erasing one straight person as a straight person is not going to erase the only (or one of the only) straight role models on television, whereas erasing Ms Maddow as a lesbian does so.

Re: YOUR COMMENT IS FULL OF HETEROSEXISM, SORRY.

[(Anonymous)]

How hard is it to understand that erasing Ms Maddow as a lesbian essentially gets rid of one of (if not THE) only serious, thoughtful, committed lesbians around? And that that's seriously not okay?

Sometimes double standards are okay because they level the playing field for people who are oppressed (like... say... lesbians). I'm sorry you can't understand that on your own.

Re: YOUR COMMENT IS FULL OF HETEROSEXISM, SORRY.

[latara.livejournal.com]

How hard is it to understand that people writing fanfiction DOESN'T MAKE IT HAPPEN IRL?

Re: YOUR COMMENT IS FULL OF HETEROSEXISM, SORRY.

[raineblack007.livejournal.com]

... Go watch The L Word if you are super worried about losing lesbians on tv. Because if you're going to whine about fanfic where most of it is drunken sex. Then you have some maaaddd issues dude. And an addiction to wankery.

Re: YOUR COMMENT IS FULL OF HETEROSEXISM, SORRY.

[leelakin.livejournal.com]

Actually, this discussion totally reminds me of the South Park episode about South Park's flag. Anyone remember that one? XD;
It depicted white stick figures lynching a black stick figure, and the kids didn't even notice the racial differences.
I think in fandom, you can't get much more liberal about sexuality and shipping/slashing the hell out of anyone in any combination. I don't think everyone's like "That Maddow chick better be hetero!1", it's because they love Keith and love Rachel, they know that they're friends and get a kick out of shipping them. I don't think it diminishes her role as a lesbian on television in any way (and lets face it, most people who watch her don't have the slightest clue about what's going on in fandom, it's just our culture of slashing/shipping everyone).
I know enough people who femslash characters and actors that are married to men or have boyfriends. In fact, I can't think of anyone who ships people with their actual partners. XD Where's the fun in that?

Re: YOUR COMMENT IS FULL OF HETEROSEXISM, SORRY.

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

Seconding writer_atdusk. THANK YOU!

Re: YOUR COMMENT IS FULL OF HETEROSEXISM, SORRY.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_plethora_/]

In fact, I can't think of anyone who ships people with their actual partners. XD Where's the fun in that?

There's a few in the super massive fandoms (OBHWF, anyone?), but I agree. That's no fun! All the material for it is provided, so the twisting and meddling with canon isn't as challenging and imaginative.

I used to have an icon that said "canon ships make baby jesus cry", but I can't find it :(

And yours was full of homosexism.

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

Well then maybe there should be more women in punditry fandom!

Jon fics don't often include Tracey. Stephen fics don't often iclude Evie. Keith fics almost never include Katy. Doesn't it make sense that Rachel fics wouldn't include Susan? That's the way RPF works most of the time.

I'd love, love, LOVE to see more femmeslash involving Rachel, but in the meantime, Keith/Rachel is a great pairing! (And, yeah, it took me awhile to warm to.) Keith and Rachel at least have a canon rapport, as opposed to randomly shipping her with Erica Hill or Mika Brzezinski (though I'd trade a batch of icons for the latter).

To play with orientations with straight characters but not with gay characters is HOMOSEXIST.

Personally, as a bisexual, I don't understand the monosexist hangups of gays and straights when it comes to gender.

Re: And yours was full of homosexism.

[latara.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I ship way more on the basis of what's actually onscreen... It's why I don't like Keith/Anderson as much as everyone else does.

Personally, as a bisexual, I don't understand the monosexist hangups of gays and straights when it comes to gender.

Ah, yes, THIS.

If you really think homosexism exists, please DIAF

[(Anonymous)]

You probably also think "reverse racism" exists. You're a damn fool.

Re: And yours was full of homosexism.

[(Anonymous)]

There is nothing sexist about not being bisexual. You need to get over the fact that not everyone is bisexual. It's okay.

Anon cause this has already made it to Fandom Wank, and I has a cowardice. sorry

[(Anonymous)]

Just for me, It always bothers me when people use whats practical in the real world to define their ideals. Whats practical can change, but if you're dedicating your life to an idea, that shouldn't change.

I mean, if you think something is disgusting and wrong at a conceptual level, (like changing a characters sexuality to suit a pairing), then you shouldn't be able to say "but it's sometimes ok in real life, if it's happening to certain people" If you believe something is wrong, then it's WRONG, no matter how it works practically.

Your ideals should impact the real life practicalities (Even if that only impacts how you act) it shouldn't go the other way.

...

Just... people shouldn't let the real world dictate what's right to believe

[likespring.livejournal.com]

whut .. assumed straight men can be shipped or considered to be shipped with guys, but lesbians can't be written romantically/sexually with guys?

Pretty much, yeah. At least for now, because if you haven't noticed, the environment and general representation for straights and gays is not the same.

Also, see word assumed, which you yourself use. For the most part, straight folks, whether real or fictional, are assumed straight. They rarely come outright and say they're straight. Probably because they don't have to, because straight is the default and that's what everyone assumes you are unless you say otherwise. Point being, it's possible, theoretically, some of these people are bisexual/bi-curious/whatever and just haven't said so. On the other hand, gay folks usually say outright that they are gay, going back to the point that they have to least people assume we're all straight. So in many cases, "straight" is an assumption whereas "gay" is a fact.

Secondly, because of this assumption and how society works, there also leaves more room for self-exploration and realization. When people are growing up, we're treated as if we're straight, the default. As such, someone who says they are straight rarely spends the time to really examine their feelings and such. That doesn't mean we should doubt everyone who says they're straight, but it's true. Again, on the other hand, because of this, gay folks in general spend quite some time first feeling different, then realizing what that difference is, thinking about it, thinking about how to come out to people, coming out, etc. For a lot of people, it is a process that takes includes quite a bit of introspection. It is a lot more likely that someone who's 30-something will come out as gay than someone who's 30-something will go "oops, I didn't mean to come out as gay! I'm really bi/straight!"

Thirdly, ever heard of reparative therapy? Or maybe "she's not really a lesbian, she just hasn't found the right man yet"? No one seriously says that to straight people. No one is shipping straight people off to camps or therapy to turn them gay. But people do try to turn gay people straight in real life, and for some people doing the same thing in fanfiction hits a little bit too close to home.

Does that make sense?

The anon above me also brings up a good point I hadn't thought of before. Rachel Maddow isn't just a lesbian, but it is a part of who she is, and what she has done is an accomplishment. Writing fic about one straight dude in a gay relationship doesn't change the fact that news is dominated by straight men. (It's sort of like when people say "BARACK OBAMA IS HALF-WHITE TOO!!!1" okay, yeah, sure he is. But it's not like it's a miracle for a white dude to win the presidency.)

It may "just fanon," and I think it's fine to think they're cute together, because they are. But it's not just fanfiction because you still can't be just gay. It's still a political issue -- not just homosexuality as an abstract, but gay people -- without a level playing ground.

[(Anonymous)]

And treating people with a double standard in regards to shipping is going to make it better? If anything, it's setting people on an equal setting, saying we don't really give a damn about gender divides or orientation divides, which is really how it should be.

[likespring.livejournal.com]

No, because if two people/groups are not on equal ground, treating them in one respect online like they are, and ignoring the inequality or what causes it, does not change that fact that the inequality still exists.

Like I've said in other comments, I'm not going to harass someone for writing Keith/Rachel. I don't like it, but whatever. However, acting like "if anything" it's actually fixing the problems mentioned above is silly.

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

I get where you're coming from, but it's FANFICTION. And fanfiction is a writing-out of one's daydreams.

I know the punditry and fandom are about politics, but to get political about fanfiction--that's just self-righteous wank.

I'd like to see more Rachel femmeslash because Rachel IS a lesbian and should damned well be treated as such. In fact, I didn't like K/R for the longest time. But the K/R fic that I've read has been so awesome and cracky and well-written that I came to love the pairing.

[likespring.livejournal.com]

I know the punditry and fandom are about politics, but to get political about fanfiction--that's just self-righteous wank.

No, it's not. In the long run, I don't really care if people read or write (romantic) Keith/Rachel. I don't like it personally, but I'm not going to harass someone for doing so.

However, that doesn't mean that there aren't real issues involved. There is merit to discussing whatever kind of politics are involved in fandom, whether it's homophobia or racism or sexism or what have you. I do think there are valid reasons for not liking/writing such fanfiction that are rooted in very real issues, just as with other issues in fandom.

You or others may not agree or want to participate in such discussions, but that doesn't mean talking about it is just "self-righteous wank." Puhlease.

[(Anonymous)]

that's just self-righteous wank.

No, it's pointing out sketchy issues in fandom. Which, as we have all seen illustrated so well, gets people really defensive. As the old commentary went "the personal is political".

[hector-rashbaum.livejournal.com]

Hi, I think I love you <3

[likespring.livejournal.com]

Aw, I ♥ you too!

[nenya_kanadka]

This. Especially this:

Or maybe "she's not really a lesbian, she just hasn't found the right man yet"? No one seriously says that to straight people. No one is shipping straight people off to camps or therapy to turn them gay. But people do try to turn gay people straight in real life, and for some people doing the same thing in fanfiction hits a little bit too close to home.

That's probably the shortest summary I can do of why this bothers me. It's because in RL there are people who would tell Rachel that she needs to not be gay and she's wrong to be who she is--in fact there's more or less an entire cottage industry dedicated to telling lesbians that. Whereas nobody's going around seriously saying that straight men or women are bad for being straight. Fandom's a place we can go to escape, but if the escape looks so much like the bad parts of the real world, well...that's kind of hard to deal with.

(I don't say no one should EVER write Keith/Rachel. It can work. But if the majority of Rachel fic is het, that bothers me. C'mon, slash her with Tina Fey or something! *fans self*)

[latara.livejournal.com]

The most annoying thing about it is that this fandom, on a whole, has a pretty good sense of reality. I don't think anyone would say they don't "ship" the rl relationships, we just don't *write* them. Obviously everyone wishes everyone happiness with their current partners. Blech. Fandom =/= real life.

[orbitaldiamonds.livejournal.com]

WORD. *fistbump*