[ SECRET POST #5274 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5274 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #755.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/Gb5F4wO.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Not even remotely comparable things

[(Anonymous)]

mte. we still mock translations that leave in words that have a correct translation, if someone tried to pull a "just as keikaku" situation in 2021 we'd ream them hard.

honorifics meanwhile have always been a nebuluous situation, one translator will try and another will prefer to leave it and everyone explains their viewpoint and fans argue over whether they're right. It happened in 2007 and still happens. I have Kodansha localized manga from 05 that explained the fuck out of Japanese honorifics as if weebs at that time hadn't yet figured out senpai.

[(Anonymous)]

Like, does OP just think that more untranslated words == better than? That's how the secret comes across to me but if that's the standard why have translations at all, it's much more authentic to just leave everything in the original

[(Anonymous)]

I think it’s still a good idea to explain honorifics, localized or not! Plenty of curious first-time readers and book browsers for translators to consider.

[(Anonymous)]

oh yeah totally, at least in 2021 there are probably a million handy lists on every fandom wiki and tumblr. it was a lot harder to google that shit in 05 let me tell ya.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

+1

[(Anonymous)]

There is a vast difference between leaving in honorifics (which if anything should be done MORE - thinking of how eg. I've seen "shifu" and "shishu" both subbed as "master" which can end up confusing, or all the times a honorific got subbed as just the character name) and just leaving random words untranslated which DO have a perfectly good translation.

[(Anonymous)]

What are you talking about? We've had honorifics in official subtitles for anime for over a decade now.

[(Anonymous)]

ikr like official translations of manga and anime is where i learned about honorifics in the first place...?

(not to mention that japanese characters using -san despite speaking english has been a thing in media for ages. i just ran into it in mass effect 1, which was also released in 2007 ironically enough)

[(Anonymous)]

Or Karate Kid from the 80s/90s.

Ngl, I thought Mr. Miyagi was calling him "Daniel, son," for way too long.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not just a thing in media, it's a real-life thing too. I worked for a Japanese company for years and my coworkers would all call me "[Name]-san" even when they were speaking to me in English.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand the point you're making, but the two screen-caps you chose really don't convey the argument well.

When it comes to words that have an actual translation and meaning in another language, those should be translated correctly so audiences can easily understand, I don't need the OG mandarin word for paper, because we have a word for that. But naming conventions? Things as meaningful and important as honorifics? Yes, those should absolutely be kept because the context of their use matters a lot, it's one of my biggest complaints about subbed K-dramas on Netflix, they drop the honorifics and as a result so much meaning is lost wrt the characters relationships(platonic or otherwise). But to my knowledge fansubs have always done this, it's official subs that drop the ball in this regard.

[(Anonymous)]

Official subs do it, because there's limited amount of characters that should be used on screen per specific amount of seconds, not because "somebody said saw", but because it's more or less what an average person is able to read in this time frame. Fansubs were often done by people who didn't know this, so they're often too long to read at a glance, and, honestly, honorifics and such, are the first thing to go, because they take a lot of space, and usually convey less vital info than the rest of the sentence. Nowadays, they are also usually done with an assumption that K-/C-Drama/anime watchers who use fansubs are so self-selected at this point, they want more info/precision and will just stop the video to read more details. The fact that official subs don't assume that everybody who watches K-dramas will be willing to freeze the frame to read is not a bug, but a feature.

(It happens to all kinds of elements in all languages - for example, in English, characters call each other by their name very often in conversations even when it's really clear who they're talking to (think "Hi, John" and other kinds of "Nice tos ee you, Bob, how's the wife?") - this usually gets cut when translated in subs. Generally subs will never have 100% of the information that the original text contains, it would make them too wordy).

[(Anonymous)]

If you consider honorifics essential to telling you the meaning of the relationship between characters, you spend too much time reading the words and not enough paying attention to what they're saying. You can tell what characters' relationships mean by, wow get this... the story about them and how they interact with each other!

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

But what honorifics they use is part of how they interact with each other. The same thing is true in Western fandoms. It indicates very different things when a character calls another character Captain Rogers vs. Cap vs. Steve.

[(Anonymous)]

Not translating an honorific because there's no good equivalent/for nuance? That's a good translation choice.

Leaving random words untranslated for "flavor"? That's terrible translation, and we were right to mock it. We'd still mock it.

I think you just don't understand how translation works. We haven't "come so far," you're just an idiot.

not OP

[(Anonymous)]

No need to launch personal attacks on people you don't agree with.

Not who you replied to

[(Anonymous)]

I dunno, OP is kind of comparing apples to oranges here.

I'm not saying they're an idiot, but they either have no idea how honorifics or translations work or they're a little bit thick.

ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

I don't disagree with the points. I take issue with the name-calling.

[(Anonymous)]

The best time to use sakujo on this post was immediately after you wrote it.

The second best time is now.








8D

[(Anonymous)]

As others have said, really not the right comparison. Not to mention this is even a particularly bad example because the Ah is just as much honorific as it is part pet-name.

[(Anonymous)]

The official release of 2003 Fullmetal Alchemist left the Japanese honorifics in the subtitles and it was an awful decision. It completely ruined my immersion because the setting was European-inspired. It's at least tolerable when the setting matches the language of the untranslated words, but overall, not a fan.

Also, others have pointed out that your comparison is apples to oranges, but I still hope you realize the "keikaku" image isn't a real sub, it's an edit making fun of fansubbers for the leaving in of foreign words thing that you love do much. Keikaku literally means plan and should just be translated to plan. That's the joke.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

Fuck, I didn't read the word "mocked," so obviously you know the image was a joke. Still, the mocking was rightfully done. There was no tone to be preserved in any of the words subs left in. If you have trouble translating a single word, you work around it so the new sentence matches the original in tone even if you have to change the literal meaning. (For example, cashiers in Japan say "omatase shimashita" to every customer, but you should neither leave that untranslated with a note nor translate it literally as "You were made to wait." You change it to something like "Next in line, please" or "Thank you for shopping with us" to keep the tone of "a canned pleasantry expected to be said at that particular job."