[ SECRET POST #5354 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5354 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #766.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://i.imgur.com/fVq15Gh.png

[(Anonymous)]

Admittedly, I try to steer clear of shipping discourse, but I’m not sure I understand this.

[(Anonymous)]

I think OP's metaphor might be slightly imprecise. I take OP's meaning to be that antis are a kind of bogeyman in the mind of the proshippers that they exaggerate to justify themselves in their own bad shipping behavior. But the Jekyll and Hyde analogy would seem to imply that the proshippers are secretly also the antis I think? Actually it's been a while since I've read the story so maybe I'm missing something too.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

You get me. :')

Yes, the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde metaphor isn't that great, and I did think about it after I submitted it in the secret maker thread. While I'm definitely not saying that proshippers are the book's version of Mr. Hyde (except for those who have sent death threats), I do view them as Dr. Jekyll.

In my mind which has thought about a modern day fandom!AU of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, I think Jekyll and Hyde post very similarly to each other, and there's hardly any difference except Hyde posts more annoying things such as overly snarky replies to things because he knows he has an audience, really didactic posts ("LISTEN UP PEOPLE, *posts an entire wall of text screed*), or sends the occasional mean DM more frequently than Jekyll already does. Utterson sighs, but likes both Jekyll and Hyde's posts out of support before moving on.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Admittedly this could've been worded better, but what I meant is that I'm irritated by proshippers seemingly deflecting any self-criticism by blaming all fandom ills on some nebulous 'other,' and feeling awfully morally pure and high and mighty. It reminds me of Dr. Jekyll's goals in the book for wanting to create a magic serum that can make himself pure by foisting all of his flaws somewhere else, instead of just noticing his own flaws and working on them.

Secondary, I think that proshippers are doing more than half the work needed to carry on this fandom slapfight war. Some of it is in making an entire identity of being on a fandom trend. The other part is in labeling everyone who disagrees with them an anti. I see more people self-identify as a proshipper, than I do people who self-identify as an anti (which is to say, none. Feel free to link me to five accounts with anti in their bio though.).

Really, the second point doesn't matter to me much about the first. If someone is being an annoying on the internet, fine, sure. But just slapping the label proshipper on doesn't stop one from doing annoying things on the internet, and being recognized for it. It's not an anti thing to be irritated by someone on the internet.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for the explanation! That all makes sense to me.

[(Anonymous)]

I did follow someone who started explicitly identifying herself as an anti and put it on her bio a few years ago while reblogging a whole bunch of anti posts. When I checked on her tumblr a little later it was gone and the anti posts deleted.

She also shipped Gilgamesh/Saber from Fate/ at the same time she started castigating people for 'problematic' ships so. I assume she either realized her hypocrisy and eased up or had her face eaten by the leopard and backed off.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think I'll ever understand why people willingly get involved in this discourse or why care so much what other people like/dislike.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

You are Mr. Utterson in this case, and that's an enviable possible.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

*position, not possible. Sorry, autocorrect.

[(Anonymous)]

Why is it that when proshippers act up people just forget what harassing, doxxing, bullying nightmares antis have been. I'm no longer interested in discourse about shipping because frankly I rarely even care about fandom ships. But I am against the antis because they bully. A lot. I knew an anti-aligned person irl and they were really violent and toxic, with an extremist view of things , ready to physically assault people over ships (or at least bragged about wanting to). And a bunch of antis I've seen in action on tumblr and twitter acted just as horrible.

I don't care what people ship or don't ship . I don't care what people prefer not to read. If it was truly just people saying "i prefer not to read this so i'll avoid it pls tag" , then i wouldn't have an opinion.

But it's not. It's people reading fic they know they hate just to complain about it. It's people spreading rumors about people. It's people doxxing people. It's sometimes even death threats and people telling minors they should feel bad for having a crush on someone their own age. It's people harassing CSA victims who don't agree with them.

That's what I'm against. I don't consider myself really pro shipper. I just consider myself anti-bully. And that pits me against antis.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, anyone who goes as far as doxxing and in general harassment over fandom drama are just beyond reasoning and should be treated like the trolls they are. Unfortunately a lot of people tend to dress up like they're being online activists so therefore what they're doing is a moral right thing; usually at the expense of the people they claim to be protecting/fighting for.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

I'm sorry to say this, but death threats, bullying, and "wir are fightin' fur juztice!" crusader attitudes are present within the proshipper-aligned spaces as well. This is just the way that social media functions now and it's not quarantined to any subgroup. I wish it would stop, and I hope that by accepting some amount of self-criticism, everyone could take fandom hobbies with some measure of humility and understanding that fandom should be inherently silly, self-indulgent, and recreate the joy of cavemen going around in a circle around a fire, and I do mean that sincerely.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Addendum, but also thank you for proving the very point of this secret within the very first sentence by deflecting immediately to pointing fingers at antis. Pointing at antis seem like an automatic defense mechanism so that the honor of proshippers may never be impugned.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah I see.

I hope so too. I'm sorry if I seemed like an asshole there. Honestly I've been trying to stay out of the loop of that discourse and drama for a little while though. admittedly in all the time I've been in fandom there's been bullying of many stripes. I recall accounts made on fanfiction.net just for sending flames to people . The bios would openly admit that they're just there to criticize and mock. The sporking/MSTing craze sometimes got out of hand with some people being legitimately cruel toward what were probably kids.

Sadly due to people being people I fear there will always be bullies in every space. I just wish open harassment and death threats would be less socially acceptable regardless of the excuse for doing it. Callout posts used to be a tool to warn people about harmful dangerous people. Now I can rarely trust them bc of how often they're used by any group to spread drama

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[feotakahari]

Know the groups by their works. Proshippers band together pretty well. Antis often last for about a year before they either leave or get forced out, bitter and angry at their fellows.

[(Anonymous)]

I know a group of people that were called antis by people who liked to spam the ant emoji, and they're doing okay even after three years.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no doubt that some "Pro-Shippers" behave badly because there is no opinion, preference, stance or belief that guarantees you're a good person.

However, "Anti-Shippers" literally want me to stop having fun so even if they were perfectly polite: insta-block.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

The problem with both-sides-ism like this is that, by definition, antis are always the ones who start it. All most proshippers want is to be left alone.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

I'm logging off for the night, but thank you for the secret, secret maker! Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is a secret weakness of mine, and I enjoyed the art used for this secret.

[(Anonymous)]

I used to think of myself as a pro-shipper, but after a couple years spent around other pro-shippers, I discovered that many of them consider any reaction, that isn't enthusiastic clapping and cheering to NFSW edits of photos of real life minors posted on public twitter accounts, to be "harassment". I don't believe that anyone deserves to be doxed and sent death threats over fiction, but I also don't think that we should all pretend like a bunch of adults publicly commenting on how sexy an underage youtuber is, and how they wish to see a dick in their mouth, is a normal behavior, that should be free of any judgement or criticism. And I find it most hypocritical and disingenuous when they then go "but... but.. you ship Zutara, that's totally the same thing! you should be on our side!!!".

[(Anonymous)]

im not involved enough in any fandom or shipping to be invested in this debate but man op, im getting serious doth protest too much vibes from this

like "pro shippers" are not just making up a guy to be mad at, "antis" exist, even i've witnessed that and im only on the sidelines lol
and yes i've seen "pro shippers" who seemed way too invested in the topic too but that's not the same thing as manufacturing the phenomenon you're angry about

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that's what OP said and I don't think that anyone has ever said that sometimes people who would fall into the group characterized as as "antis" do shitty awful things