[ SECRET POST #782 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #782 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 165 secrets from Secret Submission Post #112.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: #103

[thene]

(My personal belief, summed up, is that there's a constant interaction between the sexism of a canon and the internalized sexism of its fans, and both contribute to the problem.)

This.

The Mary Sues part is the worst, imo; the term is gendered, sexist, and - ah hah - if you put the male protagonists of a lot of canons through Mary Sue Litmus Tests, they fail. Hard. The biggest fail I've ever run was Jesus Christ. But failzy male protagonists still get loved over, because fangirls can accept that guys are failzily too-special.

The way women are encouraged to be spiteful towards other women is an issue that runs way beyond fandom, but again, I can't blame female fans for doing this (even in cases where it the canon isn't deliberately promoting those women as hateable); it's just part of the whole trap, and it wasn't women who set it up. Ramp back on the bashing, and look at characters in a mature way? For sure. Spite is immature and is part of the problem. But I don't blame women, as individuals, for feeling they have to 'compete' for approval by destroying other women. Especially not teenage girls, who are the worst offenders, and who are probably the most exposed to the bombardment of media messages that's designed to make them feel inadequate compared to over-sculpted canon women.

I am indeed probably looking in the wrong place, but that in itself is part of the problem; WHY IS THERE A WRONG PLACE TO LOOK FOR AWESOME WOMEN? The fuck?

Re: #103

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

As frustrating as it gets, I try not to blame girls who do this--just to correct them where possible. It's a difficult balance, because shrugging and saying, "well, the patriarchy made them do it" risks denying them agency, which is what the patriarchy does to women in the first place...but refusing to admit that society shapes these attitudes is just wrong.

And yeah. Whenever I see someone actually dismissing feminist criticism of a work, or complaints about lack of well-written female characters, with, "you're looking in the wrong place," I wonder if they actually see what they're saying for that reason.