fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #782 ]

⌈ Secret Post #782 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 165 secrets from Secret Submission Post #112.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm sorry... but while I agree with 103 for the most part, I'm wondering just why the responses to it are mainly pointing at this as being a slash thing. Is there not the same problem in het? Because I read both and yeah, I'm seeing it. Female character A is a bitch, or female character B is a slut, etc. all because they get in the way of OTP 1 or 2. It's simply misleading to paint this as being mostly a slash thing when it's NOT.

I think it manifests itself a bit differently in slash fandom then in het fandom, but I think there is also a point in slash fandom to dismiss them across the board, whereas in het and femslash you just dismiss the ones that get in the way. Neither is really worse, its just different.

Perhaps, but several of these comments have been showing underlying slash hatred as opposed to just dislike for misogyny that may be present in that particular fandom.

I can't speak for other commenters or their intentions or whatever, several of the comments that have supported the secret have also come from people who love slash, I don't see an overwhelming number of people who seem to be all against slash itself, but rather at noted behaviors they have seen in slash fandom which is what the secret was commenting on. The secret mentioned behaviors attitudes in that particular subset of fandom, and so that is the section of fandom discussed, if someone posted a secret about the prevalence of sexism and misogyny in het fandom, the focus would be there, and would probably bring out comments with the very same undertone.

I agree, it's perhaps more obvious in slash because het at least focuses somewhat on a female character, but it happens in all of fandom. (Except perhaps gen, though I don't read much gen stories)

The bad thing about that is that I've noticed misogyny in fics focused on a female character against the character it focused on. Bwuh?

Yeah, didn't you know that the strong, determined, independent woman that's been taking care of herself for most of her life was just waiting for a man to come along and protect her. /sarcasm.

In slash the misogyny is blatant, but in het it's usually subtext.

THIS.

I can't speak for anyone else, but most (although not all) of my ships are slash, so I am much more familiar with how it works in slash fandom. I totally acknowledge it exists in het fandom, but I'm not as familiar with how it manifests, so I usually don't do more than just mention it.

In the Inuyasha fandom, Kikyo always got hated on badly because Inuyasha loved her too and got in the way of Inuyasha/Kagome. Honestly, that amount of hatred on Kikyo was one of the worst I saw and it was het. :/

But is that the same thing, though? You could argue that in a case like that, the problem is really that most fans identify with Kagome (perhaps even see themselves in her, which isn't uncommon with main protagonists), and see Kikyo as the rival, leading to natural enmity. Now if the Kikyo character were male, and the fandom were suddenly supportive of him, then perhaps you could make a case for misogyny.

I see what you mean. I do recall Jakotsu not being bashed even though he had some attraction to Inuyasha. Actually they just laughed at his attraction, but I suppose you could brush that off as he was kind of treated as a joke.

IIRC, lots of people were more interested in shipping Jakotsu with Bankotsu to see him as a credible "threat" to their het ship XD To use a more up to date example, I see some of the crazier Zutarians bashing the hell out of Aang sometimes, and I don't think this is evidence of their misandry. Shipping just makes people irrational.

I think you're right. It's really just shipping that makes people go off the deep end.

Edited 2009-02-26 01:08 (UTC)

I think it depends on what they say when they hate her. Do they attack her for her genuine faults, or is it more like secret 106 where they scraped the bottom of the barrel and the insults didn't hold up when compared to canon.

It doesn't matter if the pairing the female character comes between the slash-ship or the het-ship, if the sole reason to hate a female character is because they come between your OTP, rather then for issues about her characterization, it's a shitty reason.

I don't disagree that it's a shitty reason, but is that reason necessarily misogyny? Let's be honest, fans like to play favorites, and can be pretty irrational about the perceived rivaling parties (especially when shipping is at hand). Only in certain situations does this behavior indicate contempt for an entire gender, though there's definitely a lot of overlap. This is what I'm concerned with. It's a pretty complex issue, and I don't think there's any one way to judge, you're better off going on a case by case basis.

In the end, I'm inclined to agree with someone else up there: misogyny can be present in both fans of het and slash, but the way it manifests itself isn't always the same.

I think it hinges on how much the fact that the character is female is used as a reason to bash or demean said character, if the argument doesn't make much use of the character's gender then it isn't necessarily misogyistic. But if the character's gender is somehow put forth as a fault or major reason for why they are unworthy or whatever then yeah there is the sexism creeping into play.

[ SECRET POST #782 ]

And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me

Re: And 103 - because some of the replies are bothering me