fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #784 ]

⌈ Secret Post #784 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

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103.

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104.

[Joss Whedon]

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105.

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106.

[Dr. Horrible]

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107.

[Whitest Kids U' Know]

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108.

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109.

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110.

[Home Movies]

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111.

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112.

[A Streetcar Named Desire]

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113.

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114.

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115.

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116.

[SGA]

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117.

[Rock 'n Roll High School]

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118.

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119.

[Mad Men]

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120.

[Skins]

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121.

[The Dark Knight]

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122.

[Skins]

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123.

[Mac Tonite]

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124.

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125.

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126.

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127.

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128.

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129.

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130.

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131.

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132.

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133.

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134.

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135.

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136.

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137.

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138.

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139.

[Starfighter]

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140.

[Pocahontas]

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141.

[The Goonies]

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142.

[Fred Figglehorn]

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143.

[American Idol, Danny Gokey]

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144.

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145.

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146.

[Supernatural]

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147.

[Lackadaisy]

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148.

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149.

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150. [repeat]

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151.

[Static]

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152.

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153.

[Elite Beat Agents, Ouendan 2]

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154.

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155.

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156.

[Skins]

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157.

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158.

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159.

[Luna from The Boondocks]

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160.

[Misha Collins]

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161.

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162.

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163.

[Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]

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164.

[Runaways]

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165.

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166.

[jeffree star]

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167.

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168.

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169.

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170.

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171.

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172.

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173.

[Keats, Byron, Wilde, Dante, Marlowe and Augustus]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #112.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

104. This only applies if you thought he was perfect in his portrayal of gender or treatment of women was perfect in the first place. It wasn't, that isn't to say he hasn't done good things with female characters in his work, it is just there is still skeevy issues and I was always troubled by the implication that Whedon was somehow a god of feminism. Yes he tries, but he still often times fails at it too.

None of which means he isn't a feminist. And I did have a problem with that part of Dr. Horrible, and I do think that Dollhouse is shaping up to be very, very skeevy and not always in the way that the show intends.

129. I don't see how Spike's relationship with Buffy was better, both relationships were problematic. Spike's was more destructive, while with Angel it was really young and irresponsible, so I don't see how one has an edge up on the other.

131. Yay, that there is someone else in this world who remembers that show! I adored them.

I did have a problem with that part of Dr. Horrible

What part? I'm not causing trouble I'm just really curious. I'm SO confused by the anti-feminism stuff relating to Dr. Horrible. I can't see that in it at all. Is it just because she died?? Which makes little sense to me because I thought the point was that the guys kinda ruined her in all their posturing and I don't get how that's anti-feminist or whatever.

Dollhouse I can understand because yes it seems skeevy, I get why people could take that the wrong way (though I don't, because it seems pretty clear to me that we are supposed to think it's skeevy, that that is kind of the point. They be the bad guys). But Dr. Horrible? That I'm struggling with.

You are completely right though, he isn't no God of feminism. I think it's unfair to expect him to be. But he tries damn hard to potray it and Buffy did lead the way for a lot of other strong women characters. But yeah.

Which makes little sense to me because I thought the point was that the guys kinda ruined her in all their posturing and I don't get how that's anti-feminist or whatever.

Actually that is it. The fact that she died just to serve one guy's story without ever having a full plot of her own. And yeah Whedon may have made it to comment on that, but really no, I am just sick of female characters used as props for the main character's angst. I really felt that Dr. Horrible wasn't really the right place for that. I was good with it until it did that, and then I just kind of got pissed.

Dollhouse is skeevy outside of just the premise, what with the oversexualized cut up bodies and eroticization of women being put into situations of extreme danger.

I expect every director to be feminist in their work, particularly if they put themselves out their as feminist, which is why I hate the "feminist icon" label people seem to slap on him, because it tends to imply that he is completely free of sexism in his work, when he really, really isn't. In fact it is more of a reason for us to discuss things he gets wrong just as much as things he gets right. (Buffy, Firefly, and Angel also have their share of gender issues, as well as race issues and whatnot).

I guess, I am starting to understand.

I suppose it's just how it's viewed, people see it as different.

I thought she did have a storyline of her own, she was the purest one of them all 'the good one', and she had her own better life without them. Maybe she was killed just to give them angst but that was the point kinda, they had ruined her when she was better without them. She didn't need them (which I would've thought is the point behind feminism) and in fact would've been better of without them.

It's funny though because I liked that part of the show, I would've felt a bit cheated if she hadn't died and they had been all 'happy ever after' or whatever, or even if she had been horrified with him. Because it would've suggested to me that it was okay how they had treated her and neither of them would've realised that they'd both used her in a way. There wouldn't have been a big of consequence of it. It screams to me 'no one wins when women get treated like this'. But eh, I dunno. Different strokes and all that. People view things different.

Yeah but Dollhouse is meant to be skeevy, isn't it?? It's like a exaggerated version of what goes on in the media all the time. We kinda supposed to be horrified aren't we?? In no possible way do I think he's saying that this is okay. I thought really it was saying the oppsite. Because women are constantly oversexualised and it's commenting on that.

Ahh I dunno. I think I'm just suprised because I actually would probably find more anti-feminism stuff in Buffy or Angel to be honest (like you said they have their problems) over Dr. H or Dollhouse. I'm shocked that it's these programs that have been causing all the uproar, not the former. I didn't see all this uproar when Buffy ended yet in the end it was the man that saved the world. I was expecting it then, not now! Ha. Shows you never can tell.

Thanks for giving me more explaination though. It was helpful. I understand more now, even if I still don't agree.

But yeah, it's all on how you see things I guess.

No she didn't, she was fought over caught in the middle and then killed, so that Dr. Horrible can angst about it and whatever. Just because that was the point doesn't mean that it is another example of a long and infuriating trope.

And I don't think her death was all that necessary to be honest, her remaining alive would not mean happily ever after and whatever. I don't know, it is still what it is.

Yeah but Dollhouse is meant to be skeevy, isn't it?? It's like a exaggerated version of what goes on in the media all the time. We kinda supposed to be horrified aren't we?? In no possible way do I think he's saying that this is okay. I thought really it was saying the oppsite. Because women are constantly oversexualised and it's commenting on that.

Honestly the way the camera moves and the views that it gives the audience that kind of works against that, the way the scenes are lit. If it was commenting on it there would be a contrast, and there just isn't. Just because it is trying to work against misogyny in one way doesn't mean it doesn't also reinforce it. It is walking a tight balance, and I don't think it is really succeeding at this point.

I think at this point what saves Buffy and Angel and Firefly over Dr. H and Dollhouse is that I find the characters in the former three to be more interesting and more able and willing to work against their situation and they aren't just little tropes or dolls or whatever, that and the characters themselves are much less skeevy, where in Dollhouse, the characters well are. (The only character that I don't find skeevy some way that is not an active is FBI guy's neighbor.) It is one thing to put your characters into a skeevy situation and have them work against it, but when a few of those characters that you are supposed to sympathize with are being pretty damn skeevy themselves, then yeah I have problem with that.

[ SECRET POST #784 ]

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