fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5410 ]

[ SECRET POST #5410 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5410 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[DC's Legends of Tomorrow]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #774.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Still better than the character assassination in TLJ though.

TLJ is actually the only Star Wars movie I've ever found palatable. And the only boring parts were Finn's, probably because Finn is a pretty boring character. So is Rey tbh but at least in TLJ she had some character development. Too bad TRoS happened.

TRoS is not great, but it is a lot better than TLJ. Most of its flaws are because it has to spend so much time fixing the garbage fire that was TLJ and creating a new bridge from TFA to TRoS because of the problems there. TLJ starts with the sort of prank calling gag that even The Simpsons have moved past by now.

TROS is a heaping flaming pile of garbage. TLJ is a movie that about 50% works extremely well (albeit in a way that pisses off a lot of people for various aesthetic and/or lore-based and/or political reasons) and 50% doesn't really work. But most of the actual serious storytelling problems with TLJ are internal to TLJ (essentially stuff to do with the fact that the space-chase doesn't really work at all and it fucks up the pacing in the whole movie) or shared throughout the three movies as a whole (the fact that they never at any point do a good job of defining what the First Order is, what its relationship to the Resistance is, or what the stakes are, because they just want it to be the original movies again and not worry about it). There's no character assassination in TLJ and the emotional and character throughlines are generally clear and coherent (although, again, not to a lot of peoples' subjective taste).

So there's no intrinsic reason that TROS had to make the shitty creative decisions that they made. It's mystifying how we ended up in a state where JJ Abrams just decided that he didn't want to pick up on any of the story beats in TLJ, despite the fact that he was ultimately the person in charge of TROS, but that is in fact what happened. And the resulting movie is complete dogshit in every way. JJ Abrams just made a lot of really awful, bad choices and it resulted in a horrible movie.

Rian didn't pick up character beats from TFA, why should he be given any respect when someone had to come back and fix his shitty reboot shoved in the middle of a trilogy? There is nothing worth salvaging in TLJ, and the reason JJ had to fix it is because Rian torched the franchise and ran. Rian was left a clear pathway to follow for his middle movie and he pissed it up the wall to be edgy. Don't try defending his shitty movie making. He trashed the fan community and the franchise just for shock value.

“Don’t try defending his shitty movie making”

You basically lose any argument the moment you demand someone stop disagreeing with you.

Although you both have stopped giving decent arguments awhile ago anyway. In favor of blatant personal opinions and insults to the films you hate. Which would be fine if you both didn’t seem to think personal opinions and insulting movies constituted a point?

Yeah, as someone who hates TLJ with a burning passion, I wish people like ayrt would stop making everyone who dislikes the movie look like complete tools. While I get their frustration, it doesn't help anyone's argument.

Rian didn't pick up character beats from TFA

but.. he did pick up character beats from TFA. solved the mystery of Rey's parentage, expanded on Kylo Ren's struggle with the light side of the force, showed Rey training with Luke. he did Finn dirty but it's not like he ditched all of the main cast.

why should he be given any respect when someone had to come back and fix his shitty reboot shoved in the middle of a trilogy?

...because that's not how you make a good movie?? it's not about "respect" it's about telling a fucking story. hate TLJ all you want but Rian didn't have to actively retcon anything that happened in TFA for the plot to work. TRoS entire plot depends on retconning.

I don't like all of the plot points in TLJ but I could absolutely have used them in the final movie to create a cohesive new story for the sequels that made thematic sense with all three. I was excited for the final sequel movie because of all the things that were set up - I genuinely wanted to know what would happen next. If you honestly think that Rian wrote JJ into a corner or made it so there were no more plotlines for the final movie, I just don't think your imagination is very good.

But people complained so we got TRoS, an embarrassingly reactionary mess that pleased absolutely no one. AND "SOMEHOW, PALPATINE HAS RETURNED."

Those were not picking up, those were summarily dismissing. And you know that. You know that Rey was set up to be significant, but Rian threw that out. That Snoke was an increasing threat, but Rian threw that out. That Ben was feeling conflicted, but he threw that out too. Those were all moves for a starter movie, not a bridging one. Rian was hired for a bridging movie. And he burned the bridge while standing on it. You don't like Palpatine being back? Blame Rian for leaving a huge dark lord shaped hole in the franchise. He took a thriving franchise that people were super stoked about, and turned it into a trainwreck with assholes fighting the fans, over why a flaming car wreck was a good thing. Rian created a fight where there was harmony. That needed fixing.

As far as I am concerned, the big mistake was not dumping TLJ into the Legends continuity, stripping the episode number off it for any future release, and just picking up again where TFA left off and make TRoS into two movies as the real trilogy. That would have solved a lot of problems. Alas the tragic death of Carrie Fisher nixed that one.

Please don't try to tell me about my own opinions, it's really annoying! The story about Rey's parents was significant. Rian said that reveal was supposed to be painful for the audience and for Rey. It was to show that the force could come from anywhere and didn't have to manifest in special families. Which, yes, is something challenging for the viewers, but it also sends a significant narrative message. It served a purpose. Rey spent all her time waiting for her bio family to come back but she was (supposed to be) building a new chosen family with our main cast.

Making her parents drunks who sold her off actually gave Rey more of a character arc and I really wanted to see that explored. I really, really hate that they retconned this, and in the clumsiest way possible. Imo the Force shouldn't care what family you come from - it's everywhere and manifesting in new people across the galaxy all the time. And in a movie about resistance where one of the (supposed) leads is a storm trooper who defected, that whole "the Force can be with anyone" theme could've provided a throughline for the sequels & even the whole franchise.

They just made Rey a Palpatine because 1) people were mad her parents were nobodies 2) people were mad Rey is good at things 3) people were mad Snoke died. But we didn't need a dark lord masterminding everything. I never cared about his backstory because he was basically Palpatine #2. Kylo Ren killed Snoke to take up his mantle as the main villain and we had a setup with a power struggle between him and Hux for the last movie. I also thought it pretty blatantly showed Kylo Ren to still be struggling with all this and not have completed his character arc yet - that's what the last movie could've done. It didn't lol, but could have! I mean, if you really can't think of a better way to create tension in the story than to resurrect Palpatine off-screen with no explanation, idk what to tell you. There were infinite choices and JJ made some very bad ones.

Also it's weird that you think there was harmony in the fandom before TLJ and Rian somehow ruined the fandom?? That's just blatantly not true. People have been fighting about Star Wars for decades and people will be fighting about Star Wars movies until the end of time. Case in point.

Rey was set up to be significant, but Rian threw that out. That Snoke was an increasing threat, but Rian threw that out. That Ben was feeling conflicted, but he threw that out too.

He didn't throw the Rey and Ben storylines out. He developed them. The idea that he made Rey insignificant is just... wrong. She's still the main character of the trilogy and a super powerful force user. She's not a member of the Skywalker family but that's not the same as being insignificant. He developed her narrative in an interesting way - she started with this very naive idea that the Jedi can solve everything and she just needs to find Like and he'll explain everything she has to do, and then she discovers it's more complicated. And he didn't throw the idea that Ben was conflicted out. He developed the idea in an interesting direction - he had Ben come up with what he thought was a solution to his conflicted feelings, but one that we know wasn't a real solution. You don't have to like that but it is a clear emotional throughline and it does pick up on what happens in TLJ. And both of those leave clear places for the next movie to go.

And he got rid of Snoke. Well, OK. It's a plot twist. You don't have to like it but the idea that it's totally crippling to the series seems bizarre to me. There seems to be this idea that Star Wars has to follow this very rigid structure - Star Wars *has* to have an all powerful dark lord, Star Wars *has* to have characters who are important specifically because of who there parents are, etc - and I just don't agree with that. I think it's too rigid and limiting. Nothing about TLJ departed from the spirit or the themes or the basic structure of Star Wars. It just put a little spin on it, the same way Empire did, or the same way the prequels did.

Obviously, yes, TLJ was divisive and a lot of people didn't like the choices Rian made. But there's a fundamental difference between a movie that's divisive because it makes aesthetic choices that aren't to some people's taste, and a movie that fundamentally does not work on a basic level of storytelling. And TROS is the latter. And it's completely mystifying what process resulted in that.

You keep trying to justify the bullshit, but it is still bullshit. And so are your justifications. Those were not developments, they were dismissals. And that is before we even get to the fridging of canon central characters, and lore breaking power usages. You are embarrassing yourself now. And stop trying to appropriate Empire, because I watched Empire and this was no Empire, that is just stupid what you are claiming there.

Aw you're just mad Luke died nonviolently instead of getting in a huge CGI lightsaber fight with the AT-AT walkers. I mean, I'm guessing that's what you're mad about, but I'm not sure since you didn't put forth any actual arguments. Aight! :o)

Hard disagree on that one. TLJ is my favorite of the sequels.

You're objectively wrong though. You don't enjoy it, you just enjoy seeing fans lose the thing that gave them joy. You enjoy seeing someone being a sadistic, ego ridden, asshole.

And you’re a delusional idiot, who’s so far up their own ass that you can’t imagine someone having a different opinion as you without that different opinion being some kind of attack on you and. And you’re contributing to the bullshit notion of all opinions on these three films being inherently politicized, and purposeful attempts to go after your fragile worldview.

You’re objectively wrong that their opinion is objectively wrong, because that’s not how it works. They could not have been more casual and inoffensive in stating their opinion and disagreement, but you’re too far into your ego to see.

Touch some grass, edgelord.

WTF is this comment? I am a Star Wars fan. Huge fan, have been since I was 7. And I loved TLJ, I thought it was the closest to the spirit of the OT while also being original and not a flat copy like TROS was and like TFA was a little bit. TLJ was Star Wars through and through, and made me feel that love for the series that I have.

And also, no, there is no objectively wrong in opinions on media. Your personal opinion is not fact, nor is mine.

"it's my favorite" "NO IT ISN'T YOU'RE WRONG" lmfao. hey I liked TLJ too and not out of spite, but with reactions like this from fans I can see why someone would. you sound like one of the people that wanted Rey to be a Palpatine even though it's the dumbest shit ever. hope you're happy, champ.

Made more narrative sense than having her be no one for no reason. You don't put nobodies in fictional stories, that is writing 101. Wanting her to be a nobody was just pure spite against the fans who actually liked that Star Wars was one of the few solid dynasty based movies around.

lol

lmao

Why do you think it was for no reason, or to personally spite you?
The whole point is to show that the Force doesn't have to only manifest in certain families. The point is that Rey was holding on to this false idea of what belonging & what family meant. "You don't put nobodies in fictional stories"? What does that even mean? Making everyone related in a franchise that is supposed to encompass an entire galaxy full of planets and aliens and humans and worms and shit just makes your galaxy seem like... really small.

Writing 101 is to make your narrative choices have an emotional impact on the viewers that serves the wider theme of the story. We can agree to disagree but I don't think a "dynasty" setup really comports well with a franchise widely about scrappy bands of rebels with their own traits that make them valuable to the resistance. I never, ever thought the original Darth Vader reveal was saying "what really matters is who your father/parent(s) is/are," if anything it was saying the opposite. I think the Rey twist actually said it better.

It's just incredible

This is what TLJ haters actually believe

Agreed, that movie was an example of how to ruin characters for Hollywood ego and shock value.

Yep. If I wanted to watch Rian Johnson stroke his ego boner for a few hours, I'd wait for the leaked sex tape.

Gross!

Seriously, with some tlj discourse added in the comments, the mouse definitely mismanaged Star Wars by getting rid of Lucas’s sequel treatments, just winging it with no plan, and hiring the wrong directors for the job.

They should have just hired Favreau and promoted Filoni to film the sequel trilogy. At the bare minimum, they actually care about SW, the three movies would have been cohesive and consistent to Lucas’s vision. At least they wouldn’t make too polarizing art house films or generic popcorn films.

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[ SECRET POST #5410 ]

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NAYRT

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nayrt

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not ayrt, above anon

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ayrt

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