[ SECRET POST #5441 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5441 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #779.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/Y2LTO2y.png

[(Anonymous)]

But what's the point? Even an adaptation in name only should try to take something from the source material, even if it's only thematic or aesthetic. At this point, where you get rid of the basic conceit of WOT, you're just asking for a completely new different fantasy series. Which is fine, not everything has to be for everyone, but it's just kind of baffling why you would even call it an adaptation then.

[(Anonymous)]

Because that completely new different fantasy series is not going to get made unless it already has a guarenteed money-making franchise name behind it.

Not the way it should be, but it's the way it currently is.

[(Anonymous)]

in that case why not adapt one of the hundreds of popular fantasy series that aren't about fate and destiny

[(Anonymous)]

Examples?

Epic-length fantasy with a built-in brand name and legacy equalling the size and popularity of WOT.

Not being snarky, genuinely asking for recs here. If there really are hundreds of popular alternatives out there that haven't already been adapted, I'd love to know which I'm missing.

The only possible example I can think of is the Farseer books, which given Hobb's tendency to alienate her entire fanbase might be tricky.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know how big WOT actually has been recently. I associate it very strongly with the 1990s wave of fantasy fiction. I think it stopped really gaining major numbers of new fans when it lost momentum around the 8th and 10th books, which came out in 1998 and 2003. And it's a very hard sell to new readers because of how much of a slog the middle is - I knew as a Wheel of Time fan, it's not something I would really recommend to people. I would bet someone like Brandon Sanderson is generally more popular than Jordan is if anything.

So, yeah, there's Sanderson who could be adapted. Malazan Books of the Fallen. Lois McMaster Bujold, Daniel Abraham, Scott Lynch. And a bunch of others past that that are older or not as well known or not quite as straight-out epic fantasy but could still make a really good fantasy series - someone could make a great Zelazny Amber series, for instance. Or Martha Wells or Tad Williams, or more of that 80s romantic fantasy style stuff if you wanted to do that.

[(Anonymous)]

Belgariad series by David Eddings.
Abhorsen series by Garth Nix.
The Broken Earth Trilogy by N. K. Jemisin.
Someone could finally do a decent adapation of Earthsea.
Song of the Lioness by Tamora Pierce

The bigger titles are older and they have become less and less popular (I rope WOT in that, it was popular enough to have someone finish it but those books were the series limping to the finish line). New readers don't pick them up and there aren't a ton of that type of fantasy being published anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

Cause nobody gives a shit but the powernerds about stuff that isn't about fate and destiny.

[(Anonymous)]

I was going to say that might make things a bit difficult to explain when it came to the three main men, what with the whole ta’veren thing, but now that I think about it … Honestly it wouldn’t be that hard to flavour their abilities and what happens to them without the whole fate thing. Mat’s probably the hardest, since Rand has saidin, is the dragon reborn, and has a shitton of prophecies and powerful people around him, and Perrin has his connection to the dreamworld via the wolves. You can explain their weirdness through those. Mat having superpowered luck without being ta’veren might be harder to explain. But then … there’s the Eelfinn and Aelfinn, he got affected by those early, not to mention Shadar Logoth. You could slant the explanations away from the Pattern and just onto what happens to them and the strange results of it.

And yeah, honestly, I might agree with you. The whole idea of the Pattern is not one I enjoy either. Prophecy is already pushing it, having Fate willfully forcing things into place on top of that is not a good feeling. And it wouldn’t be too hard to just shift the explanations away from it while still sticking to the events of canon. More than enough weirdness happens to all three of them to explain them getting odd abilities without them having to be the literal pawns of fate.

[(Anonymous)]

But if OP objects to destiny and fate and the pattern, wouldn't that also apply to the whole idea of Rand being the Dragon and having a shitton of prophecies around him, not just to the concept of being ta'veren? And you really can't get rid of that stuff - it's fairly load-bearing.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know how OP feels about it, but for me the Pattern is definitely where it tips over. Prophecies are iffy, but they're standard fantasy fair and they're usually at least ambiguous. Rand being a reincarnation of Lews Theris doesn't in-and-of itself demand that he repeat Therin's mistakes/destiny, since his own experiences still count. But the Pattern explicitly forces things into place with/around ta-veren. I can live with prophecies and reincarnation, as I said they're common enough in fantasy, but the whole idea of the Wheel, the Pattern, and the ta'veren is where WoT tips over.

Which is unfortunate, yes, since the series is named 'Wheel of Time' and this concept is a lot of the point of the thing. But. The events wouldn't have to change much for to enable a looser and less fate-is-fully-conscious-and-steering-us-directly sort of interpretation, and honestly I would prefer that.

[(Anonymous)]

OP who made the original comment, not secretmaker here, and I agree withe the above.

I don't mind prophecies in-and-of-themselves, but I vastly prefer the self-fulfilling sort, or when they're defied. For a while when I was reading, I thought it might be going down the road of "breaking the wheel" by defeating the Dark One permanently and ending the cycle of Ages repeating. Unfortunately, spoilers told me that wasn't the case.
To give RJ credit, I really don't think you can toss out the prophecies of the Dragaon Reborn entirely without ending up with a completely different story; but the ta'verenness could easily be tossed out, and I'd mind the Pattern less if characters were allowed to hate and defy it without being bad guys.

[(Anonymous)]

(Secret-commenter OP)

FWIW, I've watched the 4 episodes that've come out and really enjoyed them. They already look to be fixing a lot of the smaller issues I had with the books while still keeping the heart of it (IMO). If they keep doing what they're doing, I can grin and bear it when it comes to the Pattern and enjoy the worldbuilding and epic plot moments, which were the best parts of the books anyways.

[(Anonymous)]

They do that with so many properties where they create an original story and slap a well known name on it that I'm pretty happy that they are following canon. Update it, steamline it, whatever, but don't change it to change it.