[ SECRET POST #5442 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5442 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 29 secrets from Secret Submission Post #779.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[feotakahari]

I have seen a LOT of recs from trans people who felt Detransition, Baby represented their own social experiences.

[(Anonymous)]

Seriously? Come on.

[(Anonymous)]

Rude.

[(Anonymous)]

Mean.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

As the person who originally posted “Rude.”, because I thought the anon above me was being unnecessarily dismissive: I’m so sorry for what I unleashed in the rest of the comment section!

[(Anonymous)]

Ooof, seems like a lot of TERFs/"gender critical feminists" are attacking it on goodreads.

[(Anonymous)]

tbh i get where theyre coming from lol

[(Anonymous)]

How so?

If it's just that you think it's a bad book, well, books aren't always to people's tastes.

If it's their brand of transphobia, I challenge you, if you cannot find empathy with the trans community, to apply their statements about gender and expectations to cis women. You might find that it creates a rigid and, ironically, sexist and misogynistic definition of women to the exclusion of many cis women, not to mention trans women.

[(Anonymous)]

^^ This

[(Anonymous)]

The reason I challenge the trans activists and "allies" is BECAUSE I have empathy for trans community. The vitriolic abuse, gaslighting and manipulation they operate with only hurts the actual trans people in the end.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqNzuXfDam4

[(Anonymous)]

That’s a sweeping generalization of trans activists. By trying to hold all trans activists accountable for the actions of the loudest and most militant people in the movement, you’re not helping anyone. And I don’t want to call your empathy into question, but I do question why you think over-generalizing all trans activists as engaging in “vitriolic abuse, gaslighting and manipulation” is helpful. What do you think is something you feel benefits trans people if trans activists aren’t beneficial in your opinion?

Especially because many trans activists are trans people, so acting like the activists are some outside group who don’t know or care about what’s best for trans people is a bit disingenuous. How do trans activists as a whole hurt trans people any more than any other activists hurt their own respective causes?

It just feels like your views on this are a little bit condescending. And even if you yourself are trans, it doesn’t seem like you’re coming at this with enough nuance towards the complicated issue of activism, which is obviously not as simple as you’re making it out to be.

AYRT originally

[(Anonymous)]

I know that it's late and close to the next secret post being posted, but I hope you're still checking on this. I'm going to ignore the validity of the person you're citing (for one, Boyce is identified as part of the alt-right movement, a movement renamed such to all slow acceptance of white supremacist views. In fact, the TERF movement has quite an intersection with the alt-right and white supremacist movements, which, if you are interested in it, is discussed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyODMw6Xm-8). Instead, I would like to offer a different perspective.

You're stating that your support of TERFs, or at least, sympathy for them, is based around the trans community and the actions of trans activists. However, disliking or even hating the actions of some activists does not mean groups do not deserve rights. And, let me be clear, the goal of TERFs/gender-critical feminists is to prevent or even dispose of the rights of trans people. They are behind things such as the bathroom bills in the U.S., for one thing. If you're interested in what their viewpoints are, beyond what is just discussed and labeled in online arguments and name-calling, I suggest this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDNQoZObOh4). There are probably other good ones out there, but this one is very good as well. It IS long, but it's pretty informative. There's also this article (https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/5/20840101/terfs-radical-feminists-gender-critical), if that video proves too long.

Again, I would like to iterate that regardless of how you feel about groups fighting for certain groups' rights, that the discussion of a groups' rights should not be dependent on whether a group presents it well or advocates for it well. Yes, that sort of thing is important. I won't argue that. But the best thing for trans people is to have rights.

Also, if you're interested in reactions to Chapelle's stand up show (in full, as in yes they watch the entire context), I also have watched two very good videos, both assuming Chapelle was working in good faith/more positive faith and building their critiques on that. One is from the woman I already linked before. Another is a trans-black woman who says she likes offensive humor and is a fan of Chapelle's older works. If you yourself are a fan of Chapelle, you may prefer the latter. They also have follow-ups that are about Chapelle's later actions, but those are separate videos and can be consumed separately from their initial assumptions. These initial videos aren't exactly positive, but they are more nuanced than the knee jerk reactions you may have been seeing and may give a better idea of what is exactly transphobic, even in context, and what just sounds like a guy who seemed to be positively learning and changing his views.

Re: AYRT originally, same anon

[(Anonymous)]

The video by the first woman is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiJQV378F5A

The video by a trans Black woman is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voiivxS3X3I

Their followups, from a few weeks after and based on Chappelle's own reactions in the weeks that followed, in order, are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDxv9yMNZow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I07KNjNb1vE

[(Anonymous)]

Fuck off. You can not like the book, that’s whatever. But are you really going to associate yourself with TERFs just because you don’t like it? If so, that says a lot about you, none of it good.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like any criticism of the book comes down to calling everyone who doesn't like it a TERF so I'm pretty sure ayrt is not the one doing the associating here.

AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

And that’s fair enough. I get why labeling anyone criticizing a work that deals with trans stories and themes as a TERF is unhelpful to any conversation. Because there is a clear difference between honest good-faith criticism, and being transphobic. The leap to accuse someone of the latter should only be done when it’s clearly correct to call them that. Otherwise, it’s needlessly attacking someone for harmless critique of a work of fiction.

But you have to admit, the the anon I was talking to saying “they have a point lol” to someone saying this book was review bombed by TERFs doesn’t look good, and is incredibly poorly-phrased if they didn’t mean it that way.