[ SECRET POST #5582 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5582 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 29 secrets from Secret Submission Post #798.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

What do you mean when you say it's been blown out of proportion?

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

Famous men who express actual transphobia get left alone.

JKR expresses opinions based on real world facts - sex based discrimination is very real and is present in the lives of every person with female biology the world over. Single sex spaces are important in some cases, such as refuges. But because she's a white woman who refuses to bow to the culture of fear being used as a tool, she is demonised as if she is the worst person and transphobe on Earth. It's the same for all women who dare to point out that female presenting people suffer different issues to trans women, they get called TERFs instantly. Single sex spaces being erased does represent a risk because they are vulnerable to predators.

Where she and I disagree is that, just as I feel the female population should not be expected to shoulder that risk, I don't believe trans women - who are vulnerable in other ways - should either. That poses a huge problem because what solutions does it leave??? Unless we start castrating sex offenders.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

There are actually very nuanced discussions in both the trans community and larger LGBTQ community about all the time about all the things yo just said people get demonized for proposing. If you only listen to performative screaming on social media and the TERFs who put it on blast to make it look like how trans people and allies are at large, you're going to have a warped view.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure there are. I haven't said it's the whole community have I? There is however a very vocal minority who are borderline unhinged on this and these subjects, and they're the ones I'm referring to. And I think you'll find that the radical TERFs and the extremist people I'm talking about are just as bad as each other.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

SA Although, again this just comes back to my point. They're not aiming their extremism at any famous male actual transphobes are they? The whole thing smacks of misogynistic double standards. A repeat of a pattern you can see all throughout history. A woman steps out of a perceived line and it's threats and personal attacks.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

What famous male transphobes do you have in mind, specifically?

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

The completely underwhelming response to Sean Penn's comments spring to mind. He may be an irrelevant has been but he's still famous and his comments were widely reported in international media. Where was any kind of outrage or demand for apology? Nothing. Even adjusting for scale, it's disproportionate.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

None of them have been proudly and openly funding transphobic legislation the way JKR has.

There are plenty of men who get hate for funding right wing bullshit--when the remaining Koch brother dies you'd better believe I'm doing the same little dance I did when the first one boarded a private jet to hell.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

This ^

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

"Both sides are bad."

Might as well make a bingo sheet at this point, this shit is so playbook.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

For real.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that's an accurate representation of what JKR has actually said. Defending the exclusion of trans women from women-only spaces is not the only thing she's said on the topic. And I definitely think the people that she's allied herself with and actively promoted go far beyond that into actively denigrating trans women and trans identities, and are more or less openly transphobic. I think those are basically the reasons why people have responded to her as they have done. People aren't really inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt based on the people and movements she's placing herself with.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with "refusing to bow to a culture of fear being used as a tool" - I don't know what culture of fear you have in mind, or who's using it as a tool. And I'm also curious - you said that you support trans people; what exactly does that mean in your head? And you said that people get accused of being TERFs too quickly - what do you think actually does make someone a TERF?

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

If JKR has said more about it, then that's passed me by. Not saying she hasn't, but more that I haven't had a lot of time to read celebrity news recently. Last time I checked in, that was the bulk of what she was saying. I take your point about the allies she's made, but then again it went past 'giving her the benefit of the doubt' to 'dehumanising and villifying her' a very long time ago. In fact it was pretty much instantaneous.

TERF gets used at the drop of a hat, including about the issues I have mentioned above. Does it matter what I think a TERF is? It's not somebody pointing out that sex based discrimination is a very serious and real issue fir billions of women, that's for damn sure.

Supporting trans people. Well, I speak out if I hear someone being a transphobic dick. I believe gender is fluid. I support my friends who are trans, emotionally and any other way I can. I have taught my kid from a young age that gender is not binary, and some people are born with a biology that does not align with their gender.

Culture of fear - obviously not unique to any one group, but it's the same toolkit, isn't it? Death threats, rape threats, personal insults (mostly about her writing, which even if not great still managed to convey one of the most popular stories of our time). I don't like to see it used by right wing groups, and I sure as hell don't like to see it used by a group who are the vocal minority of extremists for a cause I actually support.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

I take your point about the allies she's made, but then again it went past 'giving her the benefit of the doubt' to 'dehumanising and villifying her' a very long time ago. In fact it was pretty much instantaneous.

OK so what I'm getting from this is that the problem is the language used in making the critique, more so than the critique itself? so then in other words what you meant when you said that people were "blowing it out of proportion" was that the language was out of proportion? more so than that people were wrong to have a problem with her actions, or criticize her actions, or morally condemn her? Is that a fair summary?

TERF gets used at the drop of a hat, including about the issues I have mentioned above. Does it matter what I think a TERF is?

Well, I guess the point is - I don't know if it gets used at the drop of a hat or not, but sometimes people do get called TERFs for actually being transphobic. It's not something that was invented for no reason and pulled out of thin air. There actually are people who are self-described feminists who are also very deeply transphobic, and a lot of those people are the people who are Rowling's allies.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

Yes that's pretty much what I mean.

Oh I know it gets used in a valid way too, but I've seen it used off-label way more. It's become a tool by some to shut down any woman disagreeing with them, and again it smacks of misogyny.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

SA For a textbook example of what I mean see the comment below yours lol. Couldn't make this shit up.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

SA Just want to add, that I think a lot of what she's said has been mischaracterised as transphobia and it isn't. Not all, but most of it. There are valid points that get dismissed in this way - namely those that I've already mentioned above.

As for 'morally condemn her'. That I'm not quite sure about. Morally condemn. Hmm. Tricky one.

The rest of it though, of course people should discuss it and critique it. What I have an issue with is the vitriol, the dismissal of valid points raised, the culture of fear employed by some, and the complete vilification.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

- I don't know if it gets used at the drop of a hat or not
Then you're either wilfully blind or just really out of touch because yes, and in this very thread, all the time. And in general, it gets thrown about constantly, even by activists at each other if they don't 100% agree with each other.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

Very much in this thread now! If it weren't so depressingly predictable I'd laugh.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

- JKR has "valid" points based on facts!!
- "Erasing" single-sex spaces...
- What about sexual predators???

These are tired, TIRED transphobic talking points. You spout them, people will call you a TERF, as that is what TERFs do. Sure you can claim to support trans people in your private life and be really, really woke on the inside, but nobody who interacts with you online can verify that. We can see what you've typed though.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

No, they're not. Dismissing real issues is only going to alienate people who would otherwise be on your side. Luckily, not everyone is like you and doesn't immediately start screaming transphobia like a banshee whenever these topics come up.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

This is TERF dogwhistling, people, don’t respond to them.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

Sigh.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

The truth hurts, but plugging your ears to it won’t make you a better person.

Re: Secrets you don't want to make...

[(Anonymous)]

you're just regurgitating terf talking points here, oh noble supporter of trans people