[ SECRET POST #818 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #818 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.


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103.


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104.


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105.
[Homefront]


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106.
[Louis Theroux and Jael Phelps]


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107.


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108.


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109.
[Code Geass]


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110.
(Family Guy/Seth Macfarlane)


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111.


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116.


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117.


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118.


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119.


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120. [repeat]


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121.


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122.
[Elite Beat Agents]


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123.
(Princess Resurrection)


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124.


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125.


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126.


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127.
[Harry Potter]


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128.


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129.


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131.
[Watchmen]


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132.


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133.


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134.
[Where The Wild Things Are]


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135.


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136.
[Eminem/Green Day/The New York Dolls]


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137.
[Wolverine and the X-Men]


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138.


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139.


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141.


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142.
[Fallout 3]


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149.


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150.
[FFX]


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151.


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153.


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155.
[Silent Hill]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 077 secrets from Secret Submission Post #117.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Uh, because it's fantasy about objects of desire, and most females don't desire women?

The secret maker explicitly said she doesn't have a problem with men liking slash. But slash fiction is primarily written by women, for women. Men control the damn sex industry; do you seriously have such a problem with women writing stories for themselves on the internet without worrying about whether or not they're pleasing male readers?

[thechameleonnn.livejournal.com]

Yeah but if women don't desire women, why do they write their men all girly-like? That's kind of the point of my rant. I don't care that women are writing gay porn. I don't care that women write my ships. I wouldn't mind if the characters they write actually are that way but that's barely ever the case.

It's really just like... writing characters OOC. It's alright if it's for a fantasy or it they're writing for their own enjoyment or whatever... that's not what I have a problem with. It's just kind of a downer. I know the person who wrote the secret specifically said "who cares if it's realistic?" but personally, I don't see the point in reading fanfiction of any specific characters if it's not realistic or OOC. If you're going to butcher the characters, at least just create your own.

[tokinokanatae.livejournal.com]

why do they write their men all girly-like?

And what are you defining as "all girly-like", hmm?

[thechameleonnn.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of girls who write male characters very emotional and dramatic. Men don't tend to be that much. They make their characters driven by this and act on this but men are really much more quiet about their emotions and tend to keep things to themselves. Also when it comes to yaoi and smut and all that stuff in fic there's always that character that's really intensely effeminate.

It's like, yeah, there are queens irl and stuff, but not every gay man is like this.

[tokinokanatae.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of girls who write male characters very emotional and dramatic. Men don't tend to be that much. They make their characters driven by this and act on this but men are really much more quiet about their emotions and tend to keep things to themselves.

Ahahahahahaha, okay then!

I really, really hate it when people generalize personality traits on gender lines.

[thechameleonnn.livejournal.com]

Uh huh. So do I. Hence why I'm sick of snivelly, effeminate, over-emotional/dramatic men.

[tokinokanatae.livejournal.com]

Hence why I'm sick of snivelly, effeminate, over-emotional/dramatic men.

Yes, perish the thought that men AREN'T portrayed the way you see them, as opposed to the way others might see them! The horror! The outrage!

[thechameleonnn.livejournal.com]

lol wait...what. You said you don't like them portrayed one way, I don't like them portrayed another way. To each their own. I'd rather my guy not be bleeding out of his vag tbh.

[clownfrogg.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the stuff about seme/uke comes from Japanese manga and anime yet people apply this ideology to western produced media. Realistically, gay men and women of the western world (at least) don't tend to fall into these examples of extreme masculinity or femininity.

So, when a guy like me is trying to find good Harry Potter fandom fiction (to use an obvious example) it's kind of jarring that people make characters like Draco Malfoy and the title character into these effeminate "ukes" when in fact, those characters are absolutely NOTHING like that.

Same goes for comic book fandom. As much as people want a cuddly "uke" version of The Joker or Batman or Rorschach, it's completely out of character and nothing at all like a man of their caliber is portrayed in the original work.

[tokinokanatae.livejournal.com]

That's an issue of characterization, not "how one gender acts"

HINT: What you think is "gender-specific" behavior probably isn't.

[clownfrogg.livejournal.com]

I didn't say anything about gender and I thought it was fairly OBVIOUS that I was talking about characterization?

Hint: When did I mention gender specific behavior? And how are you going to dictate to me when you clearly don't understand the point I was trying to make about people applying Japanese manga and anime ideologies to western produced media in their fan-fiction?

Basically, some female writers (who have probably never even met a gay man before) decide that two characters from some western fandom are gay. They proceed to stereotype them based on what they've seen on Will & Grace or in Japanese manga and anime, thus defeating the purpose of characterization in the process.

And I'm fairly certain that thechameleonnn is correct in his analysis based on the fact that 'the effeminate gay male' is a stereotype dating far back in history. However, that's not my point because I was talking about the idea of the 'seme' and the 'uke.'

[tokinokanatae.livejournal.com]

Hint: Where did I say that good characterization wasn't an issue?

Let me be blunt, since being coy doesn't seem to have helped. Yes, you can portray Draco incorrectly, but I take issue with the idea that the behaviors OOC-Draco is engaging in are "girly". None of the things thechameleonnn mentioned are "girly" behaviors. None of them are BAD behaviors. They can be OOC behaviors depending on the character, but they are not "bad" or "girly" or whatever negative attribute you want to attach to them in and of themselves.

[clownfrogg.livejournal.com]

I think you're still missing the point about what I'm trying to say.

Basically, even though some writers are characterizing incorrectly, they're still applying stereotypical attributes found in manga and anime.

In fact, turning a character into what a stereotypical "uke" is counts as being both out of character AND a generalization of male homosexuality. I guess that's kind of common sense though.

Also, there's nothing wrong with an effeminate or "uke" type of gay male. I really don't think that's the point thechameleonnn is trying to make. The point is that these characters are OOC because they're being made into "ukes".

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Well, in that case...I'm sure there's other reasons, but personally, my answer to that one is, "Because they're shitty writers."