fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5600 ]

[ SECRET POST #5600 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5600 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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04. [SPOILERS for Exit/Corners]

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05. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]

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06. [WARNING for discussion of rape]

[Monster Girl Encyclopedia]

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07. [WARNING for discussion of rape]

[Novoland: Pearl Eclipse]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #800.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I volunteer at a charity shop and back when people were donating a fuckton of HP merch shortly after JK was showing her ass on the internet (we still get HP merch now, but its becoming less frequent).
And the thing is the majority of HP merch we had gotten were winter wear (like houses hats/scarfs/jumpers/etc) that were still in fairly good condition - so when it started to get colder people still bought them. The one that really stood out to me was this older lady who was really happy because she couldn't believe that someone had really thrown out some 'good quality scarfs & cardigans' and that they were something she could get for her kids. And my big impression from her was that she had no idea about the involved internet drama nor transphobia; she was just glad to get affordable winter clothing.

I would rather things get repurposed and used than sent to rot in a landfill somewhere - and there's no getting around how much Harry Potter merch there is in the world as a side affect of about 20 years of popularity.

Also I find it beyond hilarious when actual trans Harry Potter fans exist, everyone sudden;y looks the other way or accuse them of transphobia too (one great example was somebody who identified as trans had written an academic article about her interest in HP, and oh how the terminally online people had a field day with her).

'Terminally online people' is the perfect description of these nutters. The whole JKR thing is 20% genuine issue that would have benefitted from discussion, and 80% raving, frothing at the mouth misogyny.

JKR is a bigot. The reason that people object to her views is because she is a bigot. Most people who object to JKR's views are not misogynists. Characterizing people who object to JKR's views as misogynists is factually incorrect.

NA

I agree that she is a bigot, but I've seen people who are fans of Minecraft (made a Qanon supporter) and other works by male bigots, who are writing screeds about how everyone who likes Harry Potter is supporting bigotry. I can't explain these double standards with anything other than misogyny.

SA

It's relevant to add that the creator of Minecraft is also actively promoting transphobia, antisemitism, and other far-right ideologies on twitter.

It's also relevant to add that the creator has no say in the company at all anymore, as it's been sold entirely to Mojang and a majority of the community actively shits on Notch at every opportunity

I agree that the position that "everyone who likes Harry Potter is supporting bigotry" is silly. Most people in this thread disagree with that statement, and many, many people who disagree with that position still dislike and criticize JKR. So, first of all, don't conflate those two things. "The whole JKR thing" is people criticizing JKR for being a bigot. That's not what you're talking about - you're talking about an incredibly specific thing. Uou're talking about people who specifically are fans of things made by transphobic creators who also specifically think that liking Harry Potter is supporting bigotry. Even if it were the case that such people were 100% completely motivated by misogyny, that would still be a side issue from "the whole JKR thing".

Second - I personally haven't seen anyone who is a fan of Minecraft who is saying that anyone who likes Harry Potter is supporting a bigot. I can't really speak to who you've seen who has said that. I do think that people certainly criticize Notch or whoever else for being transphobic. I think there are some differences between the two situations - most notably, as far as I'm aware, JKR still owns and controls the Harry Potter brand, and Notch sold Minecraft a long time ago. So maybe someone is drawing a distinction based on that. Or maybe they're an idiot who hasn't thought through the details of what they're saying. I don't know - as I said, I haven't seen anyone take this position, and I don't agree with it.

But I certainly don't think it's enough to conclude that the main reason that anyone criticizes JKR is because of misogyny. I totally and completely disagree with that sentiment, which is what the original post said. I mean, let me ask you - you say that you agree she's a bigot, so do you think that 80% of criticism of her is purely misogyny?

+1,000,000

Does JKR really control the brand if she wasn't included in the anniversary? Also Notch gets royalties from all Minecraft related profits that Mojang - and now Microsoft - receive, so could you describe to me the exact difference in which these two creators "own and control" the franchise they created?

I never said that criticising Rowling's transphobia is misogyny, my point was that chastising people for being fans of harry Potter despite her transphobia is rooted in misogyny, because Minecraft is fucking MASSIVE and also has a creator who still profits off the franchise and actively preaches transphobic views on twitter and you don't see as many hot takes about how you should quit the minecraft fandom because it's supporting transphobia not to. Even you right in this comment trying to draw distinction between them is rooted in misogyny, unless you can answer the question in my first paragraph. Both of these creators have been disowned by the companies developing new installments of the IP they created, both of them receive royalties from it, and both of them use the clout they gained thanks to this franchise being relevant to spread harmful views. The only difference between them is that one is male. I don't see much of a difference in the morality of consuming the work of one over the other.

SA

I want to specify what I mean by saying that you are being misogynistic in your comment. I don't think you hating Rowling for her bigotry is misogynistic. Unlike the other anon, I don't even think that the reaction to her bigotry is an overreaction. I'm just baffled at how much focus activists always put at righting all the wrongs done by female creators, as opposed to male creators, and how quick they are to try to dismiss support of franchises by male conservatives as harmless, unlike the franchises by female conservatives. Did you even take a moment to look up whether Notch actively profits from Minecraft before you decided to defend continuing to support that franchise, as opposed to HP? Don't you think it's harmful to the transgender community to have people like you reassuring all the people that might be reading this thread that Notch has nothing to do with minecraft anymore, even though he very much still profits off it, and one of the most prolific Minecraft players made a collab video with him last year? I get a new hour long video essay about how bad Rowling is in my recommended tab on youtube every single day, where are all the essays about Notch, whose game was bought by 141 million players and the fandom to which has been trending on twitter every single day for the past year?

And I'm sure people like you don't think of this as misogyny, it's more that activists simply don't care enough about male bigots to take time to research and inform people about the full extent of the damage they're doing. They'd rather spend all that time on researching female bigots instead and educating everyone about how they need to stay away from anything created by them. It's the disproportional response to male bigots vs female bigots that I feel is deeply rooted in misogyny.

DA

I understand where you’re coming from. And unlike the other anon who replied trying to downplay JKR’s actions, I can tell you’re coming at this with both a fair mindset and informed points. I can’t speak for ayrt, so I’ll just give my thoughts:

I think one of the main reasons JKR gets more of a reaction than Notch really isn’t misogyny, at least in regards to the majority of trans people. Granted, there definitely are some people with either internalized misogyny, or just straight up misogynists(usually cishet people like Vaush person) who coopt and use the situation to be able to act as sexist as they want, and think they’ll get away with it. But they’ve been getting backlash for that, not just because misogyny is wrong no matter what the situation, but also because it muddies the actual points the people acting in good faith are making by association to some outside observers. So the percentage of people who treat JKR more harshly than Notch who are doing so out of misogyny isn’t zero.

But what I mean by “one of the main reasons isn’t misogyny” is that most people treat what she’s saying and doing as worse than Notch is that she has more power and influence. They’re both rich, and both still benefiting greatly from their IPs, of course. And don’t get me wrong, as a cis man, Notch inherently has more privilege than JKR. But in terms of political power and influence, JKR has so much more. She’s made being trans, especially being a trans woman, in the UK even more dangerous through her rhetoric and misinformation. She’s capable of rallying more people behind her with her words, and causing so much more damage with her actions. And she’s taken full advantage of her influence to do just that. She’s the voice of pretty much every TERF.

The alt-right adores Notch. Look up Joe Rogan's subreddit and you'll find lots of people asking him to feature Notch in his podcast. I admit that I'm not very knowledgeable about British politics, would you say that radical feminists have more or less political power over the British society than Joe Rogan's viewers have on the US society?

SA

Sorry for another SA, but basically what I mena to say is that JKR sounds to me like a a big problem only in a very niche, mostly online circle, as opposed to the wide society where the male transphobic creator thrive and don't seem to worry much about being boycotted by many people.

I mean, isn't what you're describing just another niche?

Again, I’m not denying Notch does have power as a rich man. But the power he has, while certainly not nothing, isn’t comparable to JKR in my opinion. She’s a leader and figurehead of TERFs and Gender Criticals, who’s got a bigger following. Both from her work, and her online platform. Notch does still have power, he’s still influential as a transphobe and all around alt-right bigot, and he’s still a major problem because of it. But him being requested to be on Joe Rogan’s show doesn’t feel the same to me as what Rowling regularly does.

Now as for your other point about if radical feminists have more power in general than male transphobes, my answer is no. The UK is only really different in that JKR has much more power and influence than most radical feminists in the rest of the world, and she’s still a very notable voice. She has more sway over perception on this matter than she reasonably should, all because she’s a famous author. But in the rest of the world, and the UK as well in most ways, rich male bigots do still have more power. JKR has sway, and she can influence things greatly. More than most actual female politicians. But she’s not actually the one literally running the nation. And that’s still a male majority, a stranglehold.

I honestly think Notch might not have been the best example to use, because I feel like there’s multiple other transphobic men that have much more power than him. I get why you used him though, him being a creator of media and all(and tbf, I can’t actually think of a better example, so me saying Notch might not be the best doesn’t mean much). But I just don’t think he compares to JKR. Who whether you think her political stances are niche issues or not, is still one of the most successful authors, and content creators in general, of all time. She was at one point the richest woman in the UK. Harry Potter is still a multimedia juggernaut, even now that it’s in it’s flop era. Granted, if anything can rival that, it’s probably Minecraft. But unlike Harry Potter and JKR, the majority of Minecraft fans don’t seem to have the same kind of creator worship towards Notch. He’s the least important aspect of the game to them, at least in the aspects they regularly consider. Most just focus on the game, obviously excluding the vocal faction of alt-righters. But I wonder how interested most of them actually were in the game before they found out the creator shared their views. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t still benefit greatly from being the original creator, in every way possible. Like I said, his power and influence is certainly not negligible. I just don’t agree that it’s on the same level as JKR’s.

But that’s only my thoughts on him as an individual. Successful male creators still have the system leaning in their favor even now, and they still face less backlash by the general public for major infractions than female creators face for even the most minor(and sometimes imaginary infractions, at that).

I’m not even going to pretend I’m some kind of expert on this subject though. Again, these are just my thoughts. Thanks for hearing me out, as well as being very civil. Your points have been well-said, and you very well could be right, and me wrong.

No, 80% of the strength of the reaction to her is disproportionate and that is driven by misogyny as far as I can tell.

Also, I'm curious, why exactly do you say she's a bigot? That word gets thrown around a lot and yet nobody seems to have any specific knowledge of what she's said to form that opinion. Another reason it just seems to be a dogpile on an easy target.

It’s really not disproportionate. Just because you don’t think her beliefs or her being influential to TERFs and the Gender Critical movement are that bad, doesn’t mean anyone else with actual knowledge has to agree. This is not a solipsistic world where any one person has the final say on what everyone should believe. That goes for the vocal minority of extremists that try to speak for trans rights as well. I can only speak for myself as a trans man, and relay the thoughts and feelings of the rest of my community. But that’s still a more informed position than yours, considering you feign ignorance of why she’s called a bigot after all this time. While also attempting to disingenuously downplay her actions.

She’s called a bigot, because she is. She regularly supports transphobic people and TERFs, as well as promotes dangerous misinformation. She’s making life infinitely harder for the already oppressed trans community, especially in the UK, where she’s extremely influential. She’s also a figurehead for transphobic groups all around the world who use her words as further attempts to justify their hateful prejudice. She’s a willful bigot at worst, and a very irresponsible unknowing bigot at best. And the plausibility of the latter grows less and less likely the further into her own biases and propaganda she goes.

I was looking at notebooks recently and saw one I didn't recognise as HP merch until I turned it over and saw the copyright on it, because I don't know anything about it other than what I've picked up from pop cultural osmosis. I would be mortified if someone thought I was trying to send them secret hate messages just because I didn't realise my scarf was Harry Potter colours or something.

If I saw someone in a scarf with Gryffendor colors I'd honestly just assume they went to the University of Minnesota.

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