[ SECRET POST #5626 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5626 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 19 secrets from Secret Submission Post #805.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

You might be finding it hard to read about women because you're trying to read M/M slash in order to do so

I mean

Like

That one is fully on you

[(Anonymous)]

So many people in such a hurry to burn the OP with their awesome snark, but can only do so by willfully misinterpreting OP's issue.

[(Anonymous)]

OP: "Why is it so hard to read about women?"

You: "Why do you keep assuming OP wants to read about women?"

[(Anonymous)]

Nope. Another nonny already said it well:

There’s a difference between seeking out m/m because you want to read well-written female characters and getting disappointed when you don’t find any, and being turned off of m/m because of all the badly-written female characters. This secret reads to me like the latter is what happened, not the former.

Also, you took the "why's it so hard to read about women" out of context, because right before it OP is talking about "guaranteed gen with a female lead or involves lesbians", which implies that this is how far they'd had to go to read about women. Not that they went looking for books about women in the m/m genre.

But you and others are just salivating at the thought of OP being a dummy, for some reason. I hope things get better for you.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah and... I think you're missing the point everyone else is making, that like. You don't "have to go so far to read about women" if you don't take the really meandering route that loops around bad het and inexplicably m/m.

Just go straight to female leads, it's really easy?

[(Anonymous)]

You’re missing what everyone else is saying that that’s not what OP meant. You’re seriously ignoring every point that goes against your narrative at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that it can be challenging to read about female leads without het romance, which OP specifically mentions they got tired of reading. I agree there are definitely people missing the point, but I don't think it's me.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

There's so many more options for M/M romance with fandom spaces that if you're tired of het tropes, it does feel like greener pastures. And it is, at first, until you start realizing that the gayness doesn't negate the rest.

[(Anonymous)]

OP meant “why is it so hard to write women?”, which is indicated as the actual meaning of the secret by the rest of it. You’re just running with one odd sentence while ignoring the rest, and ignoring AYRT’s point as well while you’re at it.

[(Anonymous)]

Who is interpreting things into the secret now?

[(Anonymous)]

Still you.

[(Anonymous)]

Nope. Once you wrote "OP meant..." when that wasn't what they wrote, you're interpreting things into it.

[(Anonymous)]

For real. Snark based on willful misinterpretation is the opposite of being witty and clever, but when has that ever stopped anyone?

[(Anonymous)]

It's not wilful misinterpretation to take what OP wrote at face value.

[(Anonymous)]

Except your not. You’re taking one sentence at face value while disregarding the rest that goes a different way.

[(Anonymous)]

That sentence is just as much part of the secret as the rest and ignoring it is just as wrong as solely focusing on it.

[(Anonymous)]

Except it’s not. You don’t know for sure what OP meant, and yet you’re acting like you know more than everyone else based on one sentence over the rest of the paragraph. Nobody else but OP knows what they meant either, and shouldn’t say so like they do. But you don’t really care that anyone is doing so at all, just that people won’t concede to the way you read into one sentence. When that reading is just as likely to be wrong as you think others are for inferring that that sentence was phrased poorly and doesn’t reflect the secret. It’s not ignoring it to think it’s wrong that it’s being singled out as the only part people like you are commenting on, and using to make snap judgments about OP. Either they’re wrong for ignoring the sentence, or you’re wrong for ignoring all the others. And until OP clarifies, we won’t know.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not what people are doing, however.

[(Anonymous)]

You know what I hate? Trolls who "take things at face value" when it's clearly not about that. In other words, wilfully misinterpret things.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

You know what I hate? People who say I'm a troll because I take almost everything literally. I was very confused by the secret because they say they went to M/M and expected well written female characters. Like, no? For all that most stats have mostly women reading and writing m/m fanfic, commercial M/M is not a genre catering to female readers, so why would you expect well written female characters?

Wanting well written female characters that aren't romantic interests is a problem I can identify with, because I have the same issue. And you TOTALLY aren't going to find that in commercial M/M. Secret is poorly written.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

But you’re not being called a troll, because you’re NAYRT? You seem to be taking this a bit too personally when you’re not even the one being talked about.

AYRT might very well be a troll, because they refuse to admit they could be wrong about what they think OP meant. Whereas you at least are aware OP could have meant they just wish the female characters that are actually in these M/Ms to be written better, and OP just phrased it poorly.

You also seem to be of the opinion that OP shouldn’t have expected well-written female characters in M/M. I disagree, in that it’s natural to want characters to be well-written, even if they’re not the main characters or couple. Although I acknowledge that there’s a difference between expectations, and wants and hopes. It can sometimes be the difference between optimism, cynicism, and realism. But while I disagree that it’s something you shouldn’t expect or believe can be done, I don’t disagree that it is rarely done. Which seems to be OP’s point, actually.

But at least you’re willing to consider OP not getting into M/M for the female characters unlike the anon in question being referred to as a troll. Instead of being stubborn about their interpretation being the only correct one, and them zeroing in on this one sentence at the expense of the rest of the secret, they should have just agreed to disagree about interpretations. Because interpretations can be wrong, both there’s and other’s. But they didn’t, and they were being willfully obtuse about some things, as well as seeming to act in bad faith. Hence, them being troll-like to AYRT.

I honestly don’t agree that they are a troll just because of that reason, but I’m not denying that it’s possible. But that has nothing to do with you.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

"Commercial M/M is not a genre catering to female readers" ... we are clearly not talking about the same things here. Pretty sure most kids who like cnovels are, in fact, female. So, when you say "commercial M/M" what you perceive varies a lot depending on where you come from and what your experiences are. This is all.

[(Anonymous)]

It kinda seems like OP was looking for two different things?

a) well-written relationships
b) decent female characters

At least that was what I was getting from their secret. And sometimes a) and b) can both overlap, or we can find a) and get increasingly frustrated at the absence of b), or we can find that a new genre we were looking at doesn't even have that much a) to start with.

[(Anonymous)]

This

[(Anonymous)]

YEP