[ SECRET POST #5671 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5671 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 46 secrets from Secret Submission Post #812.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT - Kylo Ren has always been such a weird character to me, because I feel like JJ Abrams had written and conceptualized him in a very specific and deliberate way. He was meant to be an embittered, contemptible manchild desperately trying to sustain the bullshit self-mythology that he was impressive, actually, and not just a pathetic loser.

But then it seems like Rian Johnson saw the appeal or Reylo, and basically said, "You know, with a few tweaks, I think that could really work." So then the Kylo Ren of TLJ was just kind of a couple steps to the left, characterization-wise? Like, he was the same guy, but also not the same guy. The narrative didn't overtly retcon anything about him (to my memory), but it was clear that the conceptual ethos behind the character had changed.

And personally, both characters work for me. The Kylo Ren of TFA works for me, and the Kylo Ren of TLJ also works for me. What doesn't work for me is that they're supposed to be the same character. Which leaves TFA!Kylo feeling like the first pancake, and TLJ!Kylo feeling like someone blatantly spiked the screenplay with horny enemies-to-lovers fanfic.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I think we were always supposed to hope that Kylo could be turned back to the light on some level. He's Han and Leia's son, how could we not? That was baked into the character from the beginning. You don't make the son of two of the most beloved characters into a bad guy if you don't intend the audience to root for his redemption at least a little.

[(Anonymous)]

Turned back to the light, sure, but I don't think Abrams initially had any intent for him to be a remotely romantic figure, and I don't think he was ever meant to be particularly sympathetic at all--both of which later becoming fairly evident aspects of the character in TLJ. By contrast, in TFA he was a contemptable, sadistic psycho who could maybe become less contemptible through immense personal sacrifice for the greater good.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

No, there were moments of emo vulnerability written in TFA pretty deeply and leaned on pretty hard. The moment when he takes his mask off and we see his teary eyes and his face lit up to look especially handsome - come on. That arc for him was there from the beginning. The terrible things he did were clearly meant to mirror the terrible things his grandfather Anakin did, and to reflect the moment when Anakin was forgiven in death because he was loved by someone (his son)

I am very very very skeptical of the idea that tragic romantic Reylo potential wasn't built in from TFA. It really was there all along.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

And I don't even like Reylo all that much! Never written it, only read it when some friends put out a few one-shots years ago. But the idea that the seeds for it weren't planted in TFA is weird to me, because I thought it was pretty obviously a way they might be going with the story.

[(Anonymous)]

I completely disagree with your reading of TFA. I also think it's funny that you're trying to use the parallels with Anakin/Vader to support your argument, when Vader is a strong example of a villain who wasn't remotely romantic or sympathetic right up until his very final moments, when he became sympathetic only insofar as he, 1. sacrifices himself for the cause, and 2. is revealed to be an ugly, sad, wasted figure.

I am very very very skeptical of the idea that tragic romantic Reylo potential wasn't built in from TFA

I am equally skeptical that it was remotely intended in TFA. I think your fandom goggles are on too tight. And I mean, there are a hundred points in TFA I could point to to support this argument, but personally I think one of the most blatant and unmistakable is the scene in which we are introduced to the character, and we see him clearly, unambiguously order a village of civilians including women and children slaughtered for no real purpose--just because. Because he can. The writer who made that narrative choice was not writing a tragic, romantic villain the heroic lead was going to fall for. That's a hill I will die on. But we can definitely agree to disagree.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I don't even ship Reylo really - Star Wars is one of those fandoms I don't really care much about ships in.

The theme of redemption by love is there regardless and the only difference between the Vader arc and the Kylo one is that the love in the Vader scenario is familial, not romantic. (Which I don't see as all that big a difference really.) The first time we meet Vader, he's killing prisoners, torturing Leia, and approvingly standing by as an entire planet is destroyed. The first time we see a sympathetic moment is at the end of ESB. But the redemption arc - which is more about Luke's emotional journey than Vader's really - was intended all along. I don't see why Kylo's is all that different, except that we see him with his mask off and he's younger and more handsome.

[(Anonymous)]

and approvingly standing by as an entire planet is destroyed.

Yep, Vader sure loves the Death Star. That's how we're introduced to Darth Vader in ANH. We see him being deeply approving of the Death Star. lol