fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5767 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5767 ⌋

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think male infant circumcision should be just as illegal and seen as bad as female genital mutilation. I don't care you think "but FGM is worse, how dare you compare the two!". If one child gets physically abused by their parent once a week and another one just once every two weeks you wouldn't say "oh, the second kid doesn't get abused because that first kid has it worse".

All "scientific" reasons for unnecessary circumcision have been largely disproven anyway.

But you could say both kids get abused and the first one gets abused worse. That would be true.

No, you could say the first kid gets abused more often. Not necessarily worse.

And thus you would only help one child and completely ignore the other?

I think the thing you're not understanding is that "BUT WHAT ABOUT CIRCUMCISION?" is a common derailing tactic brought into discussions about FGM by misogynist trolls who can't stand to see any recognition of women's issues and don't really care about circumcision either. Therein lies the reason nobody gets leeway when they compare circumcision and FGM, not because people who actually care about FGM think circumcision isn't bad too.

The reason it often gets brought up in discussions about FGM is because it would never get talked about otherwise. And anytime it IS brought up outside of it, it gets shouted down with "why are you complaining, FGM is much worse".

Nayrt

That’s not “the only way” it could get talked about, and it’s not a good excuse for derailing a topic. It does suck that some people shout about it when people try to discuss circumcision outside of topics surrounding FGM, but making it it’s own discussion is still the better way to discuss circumcision than derailing FGM discussions. It’s fine to bring it up as an also thing though, in my opinion. Like “I’m against FGM and circumcision”. But going “But what about circumcision??”, as if it’s a competition isn’t fine. It’s just as bad as the people shouting at people trying to talk about circumcision in it’s own discussion, because those people are also acting like it’s a competition. So if you get how frustrating it is to be shouted at for circumcision, you should get how frustrating it is for people trying to discuss FGM when someone tries to completely derail and take it over to talk about just circumcision, instead of naturally adding it to the conversation without trying to detract from the FGM topic.

In many contexts the 'But x is worse!' argument is not appropriate and often in bad faith. But in this context it is actually relevant. And I think you're making the child abuse analogy in bad faith to start wank.

FGM causes long term pain and permanent sexual dysfunction.

Circumcision... doesn't.

Considering that the majority of men in the US are circumcised, if circumcision did cause lasting pain and sexual dysfunction it would definitely have been outlawed by now.

You can think something is wrong (elective surgery on a child) while also recognising degrees of harm.

So a version of FGM is comparable to male circumcision should by your logic be totally fine? Cool. And no, "this is worse so it should be the only thing we care about" is very much NOT relevant because guess what? FGM is actually outlawed in plenty of countries while male circumcision is not. That's the main issue. Most people are absolutely in agreement that FGM is a barbaric practice that should be outlawed yet at the same time, male circumcision is widely practiced without second thought. More or less everyone who is against male infant circumcision is also against FGM. The other way around? Not so much. And that is a shitty double standard.

Also, there are a lot of instances of little boys dying or being majorly hurt after botched circumcisions. But hey, fuck them I guess. A completely medically unnecessary amputation of a body part without consent is, by definition, causing harm. It doesn't matter if many men don't appear to have lasting impairments afterwards, it is harming the child the moment you cut away at their genitals.

A version of female circumcision that caused the same level of harm as male circumcision would not be totally fine, but there would be a completely different cultural/social/legal reaction to it than FGM as it stands. Because of degrees of harm, as I mentioned in my original comment and which you completely ignored.

There are several types of FGM and one of them (which is practiced, not just theoretically a type) is the amputation of the skin around the clitoris. So by your whole "degrees of harm" thing, it would be a FGM type you are fine with because you're also fine with male infant circumcision because it's "not as bad".

FGM types as they are practised (so not the theoretical rule we discussed in the previous comment) all do a far greater degree of harm than male circumcision. So no.

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