[ SECRET POST #876 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #876 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 518 secrets from Secret Submission Post #126.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[mercyacross.livejournal.com]

fundies preach hate and torture in america

[(Anonymous)]

Fundementalist speaking here.

No we don't. Just the loudmouthed idiots.

[(Anonymous)]

Unfortunately, the 'loudmouth idiots' are the only face of fundamentalist Christianity. Perhaps someone should arrange for the reasonable, intelligent fundamentalist to start speaking up a bit.

Perhaps they might be able to persuade me that reasonable fundamentalist isn't actually a contradiction in terms.

[(Anonymous)]

Certainly.

One of the main things about us fundamentalists is that we take the Bible literally, correct? Some do it to the absolute extreme, going as far as to believe that the parables Jesus told (which He even said were STORIES HE MADE UP) actually happened, which, of course, is contradictory and makes no sense whatsoever.

On the other side, you have the reasonable ones that take the Bible literally and put it IN CONTEXT. You can take the Bible literally, and take it totally out of context to say things like "there is no God" and that Satan will give you what you want. Then you can take the Bible literally, and put it in context to understand what its words mean.

The Bible was not written in English. There is no absolutely perfect translation out there, and people who believe that there is one are severely misinformed. You have to study the ancient languages AND the cultures of the times the Bible was written in to understand things such as the laws (including those that supposedly condemn homosexuality).

This fundamentalist, for a long while, never really did much research in the Bible and just believed absolutely everything they were told by their fallible, human pastor.

Now they're studying some things on their own and realizing that their pastor is misinterpreting some things, and thus, they in turn are misinterpreting some things themself. From the looks of their studies thus far, it doesn't look like the Bible condemns homosexuality, even in the passages so many people claim it does.

Once again, this is a fundamentalist speaking. :)

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

This Catholic loves you so hard for this, Anon. SO HARD.

[(Anonymous)]

I´m catholic and once I was expeled from church school for saying that adam and eve were a metaphor. So I can´t even begin to WORD what you saied. People should just read the bible for themselves, and stop relying in "higher orders", such as the pope.

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

My mom was director of religious education at the one church I was part of, so we were really good friends with the Pastor there, and he was very fond of telling us that the bible is nothing but a collection of Jewish metaphors, and that it's the message that's important. Catholic priest saying this. So yeah, I'm all for reading it and finding your own conclusions.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, shut up, liar.

[bloods-a-rover.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU!

[bleed-peroxide.livejournal.com]

*nodding* I've had the same thing happen. I was raised as Catholic, and then as Baptist for years. My parents are deeply involved in the church, but thankfully aren't completely zomg!amazing about it. But still, they're a lot more religious than I am. I used to take everything I was told at face value until I started looking up a few things on my own that I didn't agree with. Homosexuality is a huge thing for me--I'm heterosexual, but I still think that the way the church often regards them is horrible. :/

It's nice to see a Christian with a calm head on their shoulders who actually knows what they're talking about instead of just throwing around "Jesus!" and such.

[(Anonymous)]

I always thought God was pretty straightforward when he said to Moses in Leviticus 18:22, after saying "Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them":

"Do not have sex with a man as you would with a woman. It is an abomination."

And in Leviticus 20:13:

"If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death. Their blood is on their own heads."

You're saying these laws don't really condemn homosexuality, and I'm genuinely interested to know how that works. Is there something we should understand about the culture of the time? Do these passages mean something entirely different in the original hebrew?

Jesus doesn't really seem to have anything against the old laws, either. Am I reading this wrong? Matthew 5:17-18:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[(Anonymous)]

This is the problem with translations; people accept them as the be all and end all, when it was perfectly easy for the translators to make them say what they wanted. As someone who studies ancient languages I am very aware how easy it is to get a many different translations from the same text, especially as one word can mean different things and English has a much larger vocabulary.

eg Leviticus 18:22
King James: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Living Bible: "Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin"
New Living Translation: "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin."

The word ("to'ebah") translated as 'abomination' literally refers to 'something which is deemed ritually unclean', which also applies to other things such as eating food which contains both meat and dairy products, a Jew having a meal with an Egyptian. It does not refer to moral violations, which would be referred to as "zimah."

What they translated as 'in the same way as with a woman', actually says 'in a woman's bed'. There is also actually no word for 'homosexual' in the Bible, only for 'male prostitute', which is often wrongly translated as simply 'homosexual'.

The other commonly used passages refer to rape and prostitution, there is nothing about committed homosexual relationships.

You might study in detail the original and still come to the conclusion that you think it condemns homosexuality, but personally I don't understand why people take a translation as fact without knowing what the original really says.

I hope this helps you see that it is not as straightforward as you might think.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh5.htm

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Just came in to butt in with a 'you're awesome' and say that there's a documentary released in the last year or so called "For the Bible Tells Me So" that goes into this issue in depth. If anyone's interested or anything, just putting it out there.

[(Anonymous)]

I see, seems like God didn't direct the translators the way he directed the people who wrote the Bible?

I suspected there would be some controversy about those lines in Leviticus, this is interesting, thank you for the info and the link. I still think that in the context that it's in it reads most logically as "God thinks two men having sex is gross and it should be punished by death", but it's admittedly not as straightforward as it sounds. But if the meaning is different, the whole chapter could have been worded better - in the original, too.

Also Paul seems to describe gay sex, both between men and women, in Romans 1 as "totally unnatural and icky", but then again, for example, I don't think Sodom was said to be destroyed because of homosexual activity and the Bible really doesn't seem to have an opinion on homosexuality itself, just sexual intercourse between people of the same gender. It still doesn't sound good.

I'm only being difficult because I don't completely understand the logic here, but I really shouldn't complain. Supporting gay rights is always awesome.

[akuma-divine.livejournal.com]

Lesbian pagan here, and I think I love you a little =)

[bleed-peroxide.livejournal.com]

Not all do. A few select assholes are a poor representation of a whole.