[ SECRET POST #5961 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5961 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #852.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, perhaps I was unclear!

Making Cleopatra is bad and it's clearly a misreading of history. They shouldn't do it. That's the part I agree with. But it has nothing at all to do with "Americans imposing their racial issues on the rest of the world". Claiming that Historical Figure X was a member of your racial or ethnic group is basically a universal thing that revisionist nationalist pseudo-history does. It's in no way distinctive to black Americans. That's the part that's total bullshit.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah like. i am saying literal people in Egypt are saying Netflix promoting this as a documentary is yet another thing in using and abusing histories of places other than the US as battlegrounds for their racial issues, and that the US has a really long history of doing this with their racial issues and dragging other countries into it through their media hegemony

can you like... point out where i said this is distinctive to black americans

or did you think i meant all black americans are hoteps or something cause... no

[(Anonymous)]

The point is that this really isn't related to American understandings of or discourse about race, except to the extent that the people involved happen to be American. This is just pure ethnic nationalism.

[(Anonymous)]

im genuinely amazed you believe that

but yeah, nothing i can say to that, you do you

DA

[(Anonymous)]

No, you're right that it isn't a problem of "Americans imposing blah blah," but saying it is nationalism at all is also wrong. It's bad pop history is what it is.

And frankly even if it does have something to do with black Americans, I don't care. It's not the imperialistic nightmare everyone makes it out to be. Black Americans have been oppressed in their own country since the start. They're not oppressing anyone else by starring in movies.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

+100

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Considering black Africans have repeatedly complained about black Americans talking over them when it comes to black rights outside of the US, there definitely is an issue with American faux superiority.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Another DA

That isn’t “faux superiority”, because that isn’t black Americans thinking or acting like they’re superior to Africans. It’s some black Americans misunderstanding social issues that African people experience, and them assuming that they’re the same as black American issues. And inserting American issues where they’re not relevant and don’t belong is a problem. But it’s not a matter of “superiority”. Unless you believe that anyone can think they’re superior to others because they assume they have it worse or that they don’t understand the difference in issues between countries. That’s not being superior.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

SA

To clarify: There is a lot of American superiority-complexes in the country, I just don’t think this is an example of that.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Meh, sometimes black Americans can be ridiculously condescening towards non-US black people because they allegedly don't understand the social issues black Americans are addressing and they tend to think that non-US black people are ignorant because of that. So yeah, that's kinda coming from a place of faux superiority.

[(Anonymous)]

it's either america imposing their racial issues on the rest of the world or the rest of the world absorbing them by cultural osmosis, but we live in a world where the utter shite that comes out of diane abbott's mouth speaks far more to an american characterisation of the race debate than, say, a british one

[(Anonymous)]

I agree - I'd say that's really a pretty paradigmatic example of American racial discourse imposing itself or being imposed on the rest of the world. That's exactly what I understand people to mean when they talk about American racial discourse imposing on the rest of the world.

But the point I want to make is that I don't think that's what's happening when people call Cleopatra black. It has nothing to do with the particular dimensions of how race relations manifest in America or how Americans think about race. It's just entirely people from one ethno-nationalist group looking at history and making up a spurious reason to say that a famous person was one of them.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody is discussing "the entire idea of people calling Cleopatra black" though.

People are discussing a specific media piece made by Jada Pinkett Smith who is known for this kind of stuff, produced by Netflix which is also known for this kind of stuff, about another country's history while the country in question has literal government bodies being like wtf quit this shit at this particular person (Smith) and company (Netflix) while the lead actress in the film is like "lol haters"

It has a ton to do with Americans and American media. That's what it is.

[(Anonymous)]

The people involved happen to be American, but the ideology isn't distinctly American in any way.

It's the exact opposite of the Diane Abbot thing - Diane Abbott isn't American, but it's clear that what was going on was an effect of a distinctly American ideological understanding of race. In this case, the people involved are American, but the ideology involved isn't really. It's just a standard kind of revisionist history that exists worldwide. It has no relation whatsoever to the distinctly American ideological understanding of race or racial belonging.

[(Anonymous)]

It is though. It's Americans who love to portray other cultures and people in them through their own lens. In this case it's Black Americans going "this real person was totally Black and and it's completely fine for a Black actress to play her in this documentary, if you disagree and dislike our portrayal, you're racist because we Black Americans are oppressed as a group and you're obviously oppressing us further".

[(Anonymous)]

It's literally no different than saying, like, Buddha was Aryan, or Jesus was Serbian, or whatever

[(Anonymous)]

Considering Buddha is from India, he actually could have been Aryan lol
Gotta love the Nazis for misappropriation of cultural shit they didn't understand.

[(Anonymous)]

It's entirely due to this. There's no bullshit here, the only reason it was made was because of America and their fecking race issues.