fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6077 ]

[ SECRET POST #6077 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6077 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 39 secrets from Secret Submission Post #869.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You've done way more research on this that I ever did. I just hate it for the sanctimonious way the users dump on Fanfiction.net, as if the latter didn't blaze the trail that the former only belatedly followed.

Just because something was a great trailblazing innovation at the time it was made doesn't mean it's a) above all criticism and b) still good. By your logic, some of the suffragettes and trailblazing feminists of old should not be criticised for their racism/transphobia/what have you just because they did something great for their time and latter waves of feminism only belatedly followed what they did.

Yup, been on FFN since '99. Grateful for the opportunity to write for so many series, AND it's had its share of problems. We can debate the removal of the MA rating, or how the reporting system is basically useless, or even how it's great that it still exists as an archive over 24 years later.

Given the political climate and the insane media focus it was under, it is hard to think of what FF.net could have done to survive other than removing the outright porn. There was literally talk of congress passing laws if they didn't. Even without the added complication of advertising funding, it was in a tough spot. If AO3 had been facing similar media scrutiny, I think they'd have made the same call in the end. The different funding model would have bought them a little extra time, but the endgame would have been the same. It was the media and political focus that made FF.net lose the outright porn.

If AO3 had been facing similar media scrutiny, I think they'd have made the same call in the end.

I do not believe this to be true

If AO3 were told to lose the porn or the law would be changed to make fanfic outright illegal, you believe they'd keep the porn?

I believe they'd go out with their boots on.

Yes. But freedom of speech exists, so they'd be fine. Worst case, they'd have to add some kind of more robust age verification.

Jesus Christmas Tree. 4Chan is loads worse than any fanfic hosting site when it comes to content. There's revenge porn on there.

Freedom of speech is not unlimited, even in the US. It's illegal to threaten others with death or violence. It's illegal to incite riots. It's illegal to distribute porn to minors (people under 18 or 21, depending on the state). Obscenity laws exist.

There is no guarantee that they'd be fine if the case went to court in a conservative district or ended up in front of a conservative judge, especially the religious kind who wants to rewrite the law to fit in with their views. Also litigation takes time and money, and the other side has lots and lots of both.

Plus, no one really wants to be the test case for distributing fanfic porn to minors.

*nayrt btw

"Distributing porn to minors"???? I, uh, actually love to be the one to tell you this, but anything you can find on AO3 you can find in a government funded library in the US. There are no age limits. The only difference you'd be able to find is that most of the stuff in the public libraries is het. So.... you think it's just the gay that's the problem?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-08-27 23:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-08-28 00:36 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-08-28 19:31 (UTC) - Expand

AO3 is founded by people who know perfectly well what an empty threat that would be, and they have the legal fund to prove it in court. So yeah, yes, there is really no question whatsoever that they would keep the porn. They will always keep the porn.

There was literally talk of congress passing laws if they didn't.

Doubt

Believe what you want, pal.

I don't need your permission.

+1000000

It was about money--like usual. AYRT is latching onto convenient, flimsy excuses.

Sounds like there would be bigger problems at hand than not being able to read fanfics if the censorship online truly got that bad.

I know, right? I love reading fanfiction but this extreme censorship is much more problematic

+millions

FFN was in a very difficult situation and the site owner did the best they could at the time.

Can we debate how it's become literally unusable without adblockers?

that's dumb

I'm grateful to FFN but I remember how queer fic was considered inherently porn when they went on their initial ban of porn content. Anything queer that was rated T was hit if they could find it. And as a young queer at the time, it made me cry and consider going back in the closet because it was a space where I could explore my sexuality telling me I was inherently pornographic for just holding hands with someone. (The T was usually for violence.)

This. It's not the sort and search function that is the literal envy of librarians and archivists the world over that makes me love AO3. Is that it was created for the gay. We were getting run off of so many platforms because our very existence was considered indecent. And the other fanfic archives are still vast majority het/gen. There are studies and charts and graphs and everything. AO3 is the gay archive. Adds a very telling element to all the hate it gets.

This. So much this.

Hell, even now, being gay is illegal in many places in the world. Even in places where it isn't, there are still large numbers of people who consider being gay or bi indecent and immoral on their own, including in my own western country. There's a reason Florida has a "Don't say gay" law and is viciously enforcing it.

SA

It also adds a very telling element to all the whining about how it skews heavily gay. It was created by m/m slash fans, heavily for m/m slash fans, because we were being run out of pretty much everywhere else online.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only