[ SECRET POST #6093 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6093 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 24 secrets from Secret Submission Post #871.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/7g6L73O.png

[ephemera]

any and all combinations of expressions of the aesthetic are GAF in my book. All support to you in identifying the way you do. (I came up under strongly and explicitly "policing whats "properly goth' is definitely not goth" elder-bats.)

[(Anonymous)]

(I am so sorry secret maker but this is fucking unreadable)

As I said in an original thread subcultures do mostly appear around music scene. But it doesn't mean you should confine yourself. You don't vibe with music? That's OK, you still can be goth, don't listen to the haters
(I still find it extremely interesting how goth as a word had a transformation through the time thanks to architecture)

[(Anonymous)]

You really can't. Goth is a music-based subculture. If you're not into the music, then you're not goth. Which is just fine.

That's like saying you can be a metalhead that doesn't like metal.

Gothic and goth aren't the same thing. That subculture has nothing to do with literature or architecture, inherently, though lots of goths do like those, too.

[(Anonymous)]

I half agree half not. I think OP confuses gothic and goth. But I think you can be goth without being big fan of music. Movement is old enough and a bit larger than that. Clothes and macabre outlook and preferring dark literature can be perfect subculture behavior. And you can find your niche and crowd

[(Anonymous)]

If that's how it works, then anyone who dresses in black is goth.

Goth is the music-based subculture. It hasn't "evolved beyond it" or whatever. Those are just things that are associated with it, not things that define it.

It's like how gamers are associated with liking anime and RGB lights on shit, and then saying people who like anime and RGB lights must be a gamer.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean. There is also whole outlook though? And a lot of media that is part of subculture.
I am saying this all as a (ex)goth who was strongly into music scene. Nowadays it's more nostalgia factor for me, but still.
So when I was young and goth it was a bad look to gatekeep people from being part of a crowd if they are only there for clubbing. I don't see why we feel a need to gatekeep someone for being there for literature and arts.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe OP would be more interested in a purely aesthetics-based online subculture like dark academia or something?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT
you know what, this is fair and probably for the best.

But they also can go all pretentious and say that they only listen to the original goth himself - Johann Sebastian Bach. Factually not true, but funny af (okay okay funny as fuck to me)

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

"I don't understand why fans of goth music think they should have a monopoly on "goth" as an identity label. People have been describing things as gothic long before like, Bauhaus was a thing. I have tried goth music and it's fine. I like it about as much as any music genre, but I"m not much for getting super into any kin dof music. I've never been to a concert and I can count on one hand the artists I'd considerchanging that for, none of which do goth music.

OTOH I have dressed like a stereotypical goth for most of my adult life. I love gothic literature, visual art, basically any media that gets labeled as goth except for the music. Even like the architecture. So it would be really convenient if I could describe my whole deal succinctly without fans of the music genre getting pissy about it."


Please try and be more polite to the secret maker, though.

Re: Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

I remember the secret, so I could comment anyway. But thank you for the transcript.
But no, I don't want to be polite to secret maker, I am not OP and I have no need frankly. This was unreadable shit. Secret maker makes a lot of secrets and still somehow some of them are barely legible. I am not going after not the best choices of pictures, they are understandable and of course not all secrets made by one person can be perfect designer design.

Now I am going on the small rant but this going to be REALLY critical. Sorry in advance. Also disclaimer it's only my thoughts and not an attack.
I actually don't appreciate their work, becase I miss old days of secret!communities there people tried to make their own secrets. They could be really bad looking but they were looking different and individual. Now we have the same style for most of the secrets. I don't like it.
And I don't appreciate no-censorship politic frankly. Because some of them secrets are absolute troll shit. And at least this trolls could move their butt and do their vitriol in ms paint or something themselves.

Re: Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

It's fine if you don't care for the comment secret threads, but you are coming across as quite harsh here... are you trolling?? This comm doesn't always get a lot of activity, I'm glad there's people making an effort to keep engagement up, even if some of the engagement is annoying. We've always had trollish secrets now and again, I've been coming here for many years now... trolls come and go, some more obnoxious than others, it's part of the comm. Several people use the same image editor for secrets, not just for the comment secret threads, they look similar as a result, I know because when I tried an image editor linked here— surprise!— my secret looked just like a bunch of other secrets I had seen recently. More people use mobile-friendly editors these days. Anyway, I don't care about the appearance as long as I can read the secret... so I do actually agree that this wasn't a great image choice for the text.

[(Anonymous)]

They hate it because they want people to understood what they're about. So if lots of other shit that what they're about is described by the same word, that's not possible.

I don't really see the point of your argument, though...Kind of just seems like you really want, specifically, to call yourself "goth".

Architecture, literature, those are "gothic" not "goth". Even the secret points that out, so what's really the problem? You can describe your interests in those just as succinctly with the word gothic, so if you're not being precious about the number of syllables spent, is it just you like that label better even though it's inaccurate?

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, just call yourself an art goth or a lit goth or whatever?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm really curious by what you mean by dressing like a stereotypical goth.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you not like any of the music...?? You do you, I'm just a bit surprised to hear that given the rest of your secret and your interest in other aspects of the subculture. Goth is a huge musical genre, there are subgenres I'm not interested in at all and bands I can't get enough of, and it's not a requirement to "be goth" that you love every single goth musician, lol. If that was true I would have failed step one myself. But I do think of it as still being connected to its musical roots and don't really understand the desire to totally separate them, for me a subculture's music brings me closer to the other parts of the subculture that are special to me, especially if music is so fundamental to the subculture in the first place. Again though you do you, I can't and won't tell you what to call yourself, certainly not when it comes to something as inconsequential as whether you're a goth.

[(Anonymous)]

gothic =/= goth

[(Anonymous)]

On one hand, I don't care what people wear, but on the other, the goth subculture is very much about the music. It grew up around the music. As someone pointed out in an above comment, it's like a metalhead not liking metal. There's tons of different "goth" music genres out there, just like there are tons of gothic dress styles, so it does get artificial when one claims to be goth without listening to at least some of the music. If you do any digging into the history of the subculture (as in goth, not gothic), it's very apparent it revolves around the music scene.

I definitely think the fashion took off on its own, which is cool to label under edgy (not in the cringe way haha) or just "gothic". But it's not goth to just be into the fashion. Likewise, there are tons of goths who do adhere to the dress code.

It's not so much gatekeeping as just being precise in labels, imo. A lot of it is misconceptions from pop culture and whatnot on what goth is, but there ya go.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, you don't have to be into *all* of the music (I'm certainly not) but an interest or understanding of at least some of it is just part of the subculture. You can dress up in a goth style without being a goth, that's fine (and about half of Melbourne, Australia), but if you want to call yourself a goth, check out the music.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT
Yep! I hate to toss around the term "poser" because it's just distasteful, but if you do use the term goth it's good to at least know how important the music is. Goth is a subculture, not just a fashion style.

[(Anonymous)]

SA
Just realized I had a major typo! Should be "Likewise, there are tons of goths who do NOT adhere to the dress code".

[(Anonymous)]

I always thought goth was the full aesthetic - tbh, if you're not into the music and people are getting annoying about it, I'd just lie.

[(Anonymous)]

Nope. It's about the music; the clothing is quite optional. Though, there are some events you wouldn't be let into if you're dressed "normal". Due to those people coming in and sexually harassing goth women, that is, not just some snooty attitude.

[meadowphoenix]

this feels like a similar argument about punk lmao.

for the record, I'm generally against most forms of cultural prescription (i do have a carve-out for oppressive marginalized-dominant culture issues). but even when i don't, stuff is usually a loss when it exists beyond the subculture. it's very rare to get it back, and *gatekeeping voice* ancient cultures wouldn't see artistic subcultures so strictly even when they too gatekeeped. most people where goth is a thing know the look not the music, which they would mostly attribute to other bigger genres.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000