fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6097 ]

[ SECRET POST #6097 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6097 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Persona 5]

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04. [repeat]

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05. [SPOILERS for Good Omens season 2]

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06. [WARNING for discussion of seuxal assault]

Notes:

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Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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05. [SPOILERS for Good Omens season 2]
https://images4.imagebam.com/d9/63/b4/MEOQQZ7_o.png

Do you mean as the leads OP? Because there have been shows with canon queer characters for, well not ages, but for a decently long time so that aspect isn't new. I think there's also a bit of contextual difference between the way the two romances were canonized as OFMD did it in season 1 with very obvious build-up, and Good Omens did it in season 2 after a season of deliberate ambiguity.

So I think this is a bit of apples to oranges.

Yeah Op. What Good omens did that was very very different and surprising was that they took a pair that was ambiguous/hinted at, a long standing popular fan ship for years (since the novel), and made it canon. I honestly don't remember the last time that ever happened. It'd be more akin to if destiel or buddie became canon or smth.

OFMD wasn't even the first pirate show to have canonically queer main characters or have a "surprise! *Jazz hands* the main character isn't actually straight" reveal. If we really want to be pedantic, Black Sails did it first lmao.

The only other fanon-to-canon ships I can think of are Ivy/Harley and Rictor/Shatterstar from DC and Marvel Comics respectively. Otherwise it's not really a thing that happens to any fanon ship, most of the time a show is created with the romances already in mind which is what OFMD did, which I still love but it's a very different thing and is bizarre to almost pit them against each other?

They doing different ways of telling a romance and that's a good thing.

I'm not a Supernatural fan, but I am on tumblr, and as I understand Destiel is about as canon as Aziraphale/Crowley is right now. They both had a scene where one party confessed and the other didn't exactly.

So I guess in that sense Supernatural did it first. Though I grant you with GO it's now pretty obvious they're going to end up actually together, whereas Destiel's fate is more open-ended.

Eh, wouldn't say the two things are comparable. Crowley might have been the one to more blatantly put what they could have into words, but the entirety of S2 Aziraphale was very much trying to make *it* happen (obviously never addressing it directly because old habits die hard), and I'd argue that the way he tells Crowley "I need you!" in those last fifteen minutes is just as weighty as Crowley's whole confession. Not to mention the foundations laid down by S1 in making it clear they are both very much in love with each other.

(and on an aside, I to this day I still genuinely cannot understand how anybody could interpret S1 Aziracrow as anything but blatantly in love? Like I don't mean to sound snarky, I literally cannot wrap my head around the concept of someone seeing the way they act around each other, how they look at each other, lines like "You go too fast for me", and go "Yes, they are only friends, no romantic love to see here!"

And I say this as an acearo who had to be smacked across the face by people confessing their interest to me my entire life because I am THAT blind, apparently, kjdshjkhfsd)

Whereas Castiel's confession and how Supernatural subsequently ended was just....... You know. There's a reason that scene was meme'd to (super)hell and back, methinks :°D

I agree that S1 is also pretty blatant about showing the love in their actions, but since they don't directly admit it (to paraphrase Crowley, they've spent their entire existence pretending it's not there) I do not consider the ship itself canon in S1. The history of TV is rife with pairings, queer and otherwise, that audiences see and the actors leaned into, but which were never officially canon.

I considered Aziracrow to be one of those until proven otherwise, partially because in the 30 years between the book and the TV show, I never heard Pratchett or Gaiman outright endorse a romantic reading. I know Gaiman's been calling Aziraphale and Crowley a love story since S1, but as seen in the show, they haven't fully admitted it even to themselves until the end of S2.

As for the Destiel bit, I'm not saying it's as satisfying, or even as well written. The memes seem well deserved, and Spanish dub nonwithstanding, Dean's feelings are much more ambiguous than Aziraphale's. I still feel there's something comparable in two long-running fandoms bringing a fan favorite ship into the canon in some capacity.

Extremely funny this sounds like it's implying like "no GO isn't the first time a tv show has had queer content. that's this other 2020s tv show". Like I'm sure that's not what op is trying to say but like. lol

It is pretty silly, when the "X did it first" argument usually comes up when X predates the current example by so long as to have been forgotten or by most people (or before their time altogether) which makes a logical call for a history lesson.

I am sorry OFMD did exactly what first? Or Good Omens for that matter? Are you saying they are first explicitly queer shows in the year of the world 5784?

I mean, OFMD isn't even the only queer show in 2022. (sorry I've stopped doing pretentious thingy) There were at the very least Interview with a Vampire and A League of Our Own. Yes, they were released a bit later in the year, but probably they were shot before Our Flag

I think OP means not just queer shows, but shows that got widely accused of queerbaiting and then had the queerness be explicitly canon.

That has happened plenty before too (sometimes with the canon queerness unplanned during the initial accusations, like with Legend of Korra; sometimes planned but not mentioned because of spoilers, like with new She-Ra; and sometimes unsure, like with Adventure Time; and sorry my examples are all from a very different genre type), so OP is still being ridiculous, but not to the degree of claiming OFMD is the first queer show ever.

Oh. That makes more sense, thank you. Still stupid but less bewildering

As someone in the trenches of Korrasami since the day Asami's character art was revealed, NY just wanted to say that by my recollection, by the time anything queer in canon started showing up for them, it was almost certainly planned (seasons 3 and 4). In seasons 1 and 2, it was largely just seen as a fanon or even crack ship.

As someone deeply entrenched in the GO fandom I genuinely have no clue what OP is talking about, here. I've seen plenty of people (me included) who were ecstatic at the kiss, but I have yet to see one single person act like it is groundbreaking in any way.

Mostly I've seen a lot of people being happy about the blatant queerness of the whole season, what with the fact not a straight couple has been seen (if not Job and Sitis but hey, bible canon!) for the entire season, lmao

Very different. Aziraphale/Crowley has been a ship for almost thirty years. Them actually getting together in an almost canonical way is a vanishingly rare event. It's more like if they made a post-books Harry Potter TV series and had Harry and Draco actually hook up.

OFMD was written at the outset with them getting together in mind. Totally different.

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