fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6123 ]

[ SECRET POST #6123 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6123 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Kim Possible]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 16 secrets from Secret Submission Post #875.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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05. https://i.imgur.com/d8pa985.png

Are Jews white enough that white people are allowed to save them? Discuss.

(Thinking about Arknights, where a fantasy version of a white Australian is the savior of a group that’s kinda Jewish and kinda generically Eastern European.)

Some Jews are White.
Anyone can save them from danger if they care enough to. But most people don't care enough to.

Jews are POC if the fandom likes them and white if the fandom doesn't like them.

The same goes for light-skinned Latinos.

One of the more surreal things I've seen in my time on social media was in a flow arts group. A bunch of the white users were discussing how something was appropriating Latin American culture (wish I could recall what it was!), how it was important for everyone to reckon with that, and to perhaps choose to stop doing it out of respect for Latinos.

A Colombian man entered the conversation. He said he didn't view the thing as appropriation, and explained why. All of the white users pounced on him, lambasting and insulting him, posting mocking gifs and memes. I saw people who had, just a few comments before, speak about respecting the Latino perspective, spew absolute vitriol at this man.

And I'm not saying he was right just because he himself was Latino; there's room for good faith disagreement there, and someone from a different country or background might have had a very different take from him. But it was so clear that those white people could only "respect" and "listen to" Latinos who agreed with them. It was like they were just waiting for an opportunity to treat them poorly.

DA
Ever since I saw "social justice" take off on Tumblr in 2008, I have completely given up on the idea that any internet activism is genuine. I have seen lots of incidents like the one you describe. People who say they are activists are never genuine, they are always bullying sociopaths who want to use "social justice" as a way to get clout and be racist without getting called out for it. Every single time.

Re: Arknights anon

(Anonymous) - 2023-10-12 04:42 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Arknights anon

(Anonymous) - 2023-10-12 05:14 (UTC) - Expand

Oh man, remember when the interwebs tried to cancel Speedy Gonzales? Only to look stupid when basically every Mexican came out to explain what an awesome icon he was for them?

Or the time people tried to cancel Selena Gomez for having the gall to wear a fucking bindi, and Indians were coming out to say "Chill your tits, it's literally just forehead jewelry."

Good times.

I have seen this FAR too many times. People 'defending' someone they've decided was horribly wronged and screaming for the blood of the person or people who wronged them. Then the wronged person chimes in and says, "Actually, I think there needs to be room for forgiveness," or "It wasn't actually that bad," and suddenly the people defending them moments before are like, "Shut up; what do you know?"

I guess those Whites wanted to err on the side of caution and be overly correct!

Agreed.

Fandom as a whole doesn't like dark skinned Latinos?

As a pale-skinned mexican? The way you bloody yanks use the word 'White' as something anyone decides on a whim is disturbing.

It's not on a whim, it's calculated and aimed carefully at groups that powerful people see as a threat want to dehumanize. It's so specific that we used to have the one-drop rule, so if you appeared white and lived your life as a white person but it was discovered at some point that you had any black relatives somewhere on your family tree, surprise you officially weren't white and never had been. You can even see who are officially not white at the moment by looking at the national census options for ethnicity (although there is still that vague "Other" option).

The thing is, categorizing on a whim would make more sense because anthropologically, there are no clear cut racial lines, no cutoff point where one race ends and another begins. So yeah. Your confusion makes as little sense as ours. Oop.

Re: Arknights anon

(Anonymous) - 2023-10-12 05:47 (UTC) - Expand

whiteness is whim-based everywhere "white" exists.

Honestly, it's not cowardice to refrain from arguing, so much as basic self-preservation. Some people simply cannot be made to see sense, best to just leave them alone with their wannabe moral high ground.

+100

I'll argue for you! Just point me at 'em!

Eh... the less stupid ones are probably arguing that from a writing perspective, everything is a choice that the writer could do differently. So if a white character saves a POC child, it counts from their perspective because the two choices are not "white person saves child" or "white person lets child die," there's also the choices of "different character who's also a POC comes in and saves child" or "there is no white person, the character who was originally white could have been written as a POC all along." So like, I don't think they're saying if the situation were real then a white person should let a POC die, because reality doesn't allow writing choices.

But I do agree it's a stretch to call it white saviorism even in fiction every time a white character helps a POC in any way. It's more the way it's portrayed and the purpose in the overall narrative, and also the pattern of it happening over and over throughout fiction in general, rather than just the act itself in any particular story. And yes I'm sure some dumber people do overuse it without even understanding the abovementioned nuance.

+1, I've seen this argued from the perfectly reasonable perspective of "this white savior thing keeps fucking happening, maybe some POC should get to do the saving some time". But I have also seen it taken to the extreme as in this secret, saying it would be better for a POC to die than have a white savior narrative. No! Both are bad!

White saviors proliferated in media to the point it became propaganda. Because let's be real here, white people aren't generally interested in saving brown people anywhere near as much as media likes to show them doing. White people barely care about each other let alone the vast swaths of people they've been actively, and sometimes enthusiastically, oppressing for hundreds of years.

White Savior stories are just white people trying to reassure themselves they've done some trickle of good among the tidal waves of genocide, slavery, and rape of entire cultures that they're historically infamous for.

The trope would go over better nowadays if white saviors' stories acknowledged the reason black and brown people need to be "saved" in most instances is because of a system white people built to serve them and their white children and their children's children in perpetuity.

Although if the secret is referring to people accusing a story about a white person rescuing a family of PoC from a burning building of being 'White Savior-y,' then yeah, they have a point. That's not part of the trope, that's just someone being heroic.

Too over-the-top. You gotta dial it back a little so people start out thinking you might be reasonable.

I wasn't trying to be over-the-top, though? I'm literally repeating legitimate complaints people have had with the White Savior trope for a long time now. I didn't call anyone any names or use bad language. So, you tell me what I wrote that was out of line? Because your response reeks of tone policing.

fandom/social media: the place where sociological/psychological/academic/cultural terms go to die. or worse mutate.

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OP? Is that the right tag? Newish here.

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