[ SECRET POST #6153 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6153 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


All secrets today have spoiler/content warnings attached.



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01. [SPOILERS for Slay the Princess]




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02. [SPOILERS for Pact]




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03. [SPOILERS for Final Fantasy 16]




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04. [SPOILERS for Our Flag Means Death]




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05. [WARNING for discussion of violence, transphobia, abuse, child abuse; Ezra Miller]




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06. [WARNING for discussion of RL war/genocide/etc]



























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #879.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. [SPOILERS for Our Flag Means Death]
https://i.imgur.com/cRxW1ec.png

[(Anonymous)]

I don't understand anything anymore. I've become old and out of touch.

[(Anonymous)]

I tried to get into OFMD, but 3 episodes in and the visceral second-hand embarrassment response to pretty much everything Stede wasn't letting up, and I asked people if it got better and was basically told no, but I'd get desensitized to it. Like, if I could find a version where everything's the same but Stede's replaced by a pillow with a smiley face drawn on it, maybe I'd give it another shot.

[(Anonymous)]

Our Flag Means Death is FINE, but the insistence a lot of fans have on treating it like a) the first show to ever have queer people in it, b) a serious dramatic/ romantic series, and c) a masterpiece, is confounding.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I mean from fandom osmosis alone, I kept thinking "well maybe I should check out this new gay pirate show". Forrunately I found out it was a cringe comedy show before actually watching it because that's my most loathed genre of all time.

[(Anonymous)]

This. I had a friend, who was a few episodes ahead of me, tell me she was sooo excited for me to get to the end of season 1 because I would love love love it. What she meant was I would be excited by a gay kiss, and I was pretty underwhelmed (I also watch Thai BL). Two dudes kissing is not some amazing unexpected thing on tv anymore.

Like, it's fine. I had a hard time getting through the first few episodes because Stede tripped my second hand embarrassment so hard, but I really enjoyed Blackbeard. But it's not special among queer shows, and it's not pushing the boundaries of Great TV. It's just a cute little queer pirate show. The End.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you think this is one of those things where people have trouble seeing that some things actually have changed? Like, they've been hearing "there's not any/not enough LGBTQ representation" for so long that they have trouble seeing all the representation that's there.

It's weird. I saw 'In & Out' in the theaters with my grandmother. 'The Object of My Affection' came out around the same time, and 'Will & Grace' showed up on TV and became a big hit. So there was all this media about the relationships between straight women and gay men - straight women having to come to grips with the fact that the guys they were into could never be into them; gay men having to come to grips with the fact that they weren't into women; friendships between straight women and gay men being different, in kind of a positive way.

At the same time, ‘Xena’ was on, and they couldn’t come right and say that Xena and Gabriella were together, but we all knew. And Tara showed up on ‘Buffy,’ and Willow fell in love with her. And then there was ‘Queer as Folk,’ and over in Prestige TV world, ‘The Wire’ had a lesbian main character.

In the midst of all this, there were stereotypes, and there was queer-baiting, and there was the prohibition against showing a same-sex kiss in certain outlets. It was not perfect. But nonetheless, I grew up in this media environment where, at least from my perspective, I was constantly getting the message that gay people were normal, and that they had a particular set of issues/concerns. That message has only gotten louder over time. I mean, corporations actively court LGBTQ folks as a demographic, now.

I’m not completely sure where I’m going with this except to say that I think a lot of people underestimate and haven’t noticed the extent to which LGBTQ rep has grown and has been normalized over the past 25 years or so. For some reason, it still feels to them like Reagan is president or something, so a show like ‘Our Flag Means Death’ seems unbelievably groundbreaking.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I think it depends on what kind of media they were watching before. Unless they were actively seeking out queer media, OFMD might be the most mainstream recent example of it they've seen since Will and Grace or Brokeback Mountain. And OFMD does have something those old examples don't: Gay main characters who actually get to have a romance and live to the end.

I definitely seek out queer media, because het stuff bores the shit out of me, even if almost all queer media has no representation for me either. My friend, however, watches lots of straight romances. She doesn't seek out queer media, so she thought OFMD was a fun pirate comedy and the kiss at the end of S1 seemed amazing to her. She knew I was into queer media, so she gushed about it to me. I didn't have the heart to tell her that all the foreign shows I've been rec'ing to her that she's ignored have, like, full on queer romance and sex. She's also tried rec'ing The Last of Us tv show to me because of the one episode of queer romance. She's a little confused, but she got the spirit.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. I liked first season well enough even though comedy isn't exactly my thing but I was in the mood. But all the ridiculous meta posts (I think about character that died (?)), all the gushing, all the "this is the best show ever the first ever to queer omg" made me block the tag and I am still didn't watch the second season

[(Anonymous)]

Do they really though? Or do you just assume being extremely fannish and gushing your adoration is the same as calling something the best ever? Because it's very normal in fandom to love something with all your heart and know it's objectively not high quality. And frankly, not being constantly self-deprecating about it in your fannish ramblings is far less annoying IMO (i.e. "I know this sucks but I LOVE IT SOOO MUCH!" <<<< "I LOVE THIS SOOOOOO MUCH")

[(Anonymous)]

OP

I have seen fan discussions about the recent end of season 2 revolve around the fact that the fans had very high expectations of the plot and writing based on season 1 and so were even more disappointed by the ending than they would have been watching a lesser show. So fans definitely do think it's pretty good. Which is fine. I am just baffled by it, and in turn amused by the confusion the season 2 finale brought.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe it's just my corner of the internet, but I never see fans of this show being belligerent or creepy or bashing other shows. They're just really enthusiastic about their own show, which is what most people hope for in their own fandoms. Watching them be sad because something they really liked let them down doesn't sound much fun to me, but to each their own I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

tbh a lot of the volume seems to be because Warner/Max treats it poorly (they renewed s2 months after s1 ended, then they substantially cut its budget, and now the fandom is loud and demanding again because who knows if s3 is on the table). I never judge any fans for being "annoying" in those circumstances where it feels like execs are against you.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Eh, I don't harbour any malice towards the fans, I just think low stakes internet meltdowns are pretty funny. And I happen to be of the opinion that being disappointed by TV writing in a silly cringe comedy show is ultimately pretty low stakes.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm ok with the show 3 eps in, but I haven't finished it and have been putting it off. However - the fanbase that I've seen in passing have been horrific.
I saw a post basically trying to assign some kind of 'evil' psychology term to people who like a character that is either the villain or problematic and... fucking yikes dude. So when people are saying its super queer, is it a legit thing or just something sanitized for the 'good' gays - because I've seen that mentality in other fandoms before resulting the same way.
Not saying that everybody has to like a bad guy, but if they can't handle people interested in a variety of fictional characters - including the morally icky ones - then they're probably not as progressive as they think.

[(Anonymous)]

ChatGPT, is that you?

[(Anonymous)]

Please go away.

[(Anonymous)]

No? Wtf why do you keep coming on here to be a shit head in every post on here? What are you so miserable that you have to make it everybody else's problem?
I know we're all nerds here, but my god - you are the prime example of needing to go outside and get a breath of fucking air.

[(Anonymous)]

That's moreso the fandom's problem than the show's. The show itself seems very willing to let its queer characters be messy and morally questionable; it's not the canon's fault if fans tend to drill things down to simple "good vs. evil" binaries because they struggle with a romcom where both halves of the central couple are flawed people, and where the third wheel losing side of the love triangle is also a nuanced individual who can be empathized with.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah I can believe that. I do intend on finishing the show at some point, but I'm just not getting into the fandom if I can help it.

[(Anonymous)]

Definitely an issue with the fans. This IS a show about pirates, for all that it's a queer comedy; everyone is a criminal of some kind. They're not morally good people, so fans have to contort themselves to find an "evil" character. The show does not gloss over the fact that they are full on pirates.

I wasn't feeling like I wanted to get into the fandom for OFMD anyway, and having seen what the fandom has been doing makes me glad of it. Because holy shit.

[(Anonymous)]

That makes sense. I've seen that attitude in so many shows/series that are not strictly good vs evil and trying to pick out the villain and hero.

[(Anonymous)]

I enjoyed season one well enough but I am baffled by how much devotion to this show and fawning over every character and ship there is.