fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6315 ]

[ SECRET POST #6315 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6315 ⌋

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[Frieren: Beyond the Journey's End]

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[Unicorn Overlord]

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There's something very odd to me about how many people think it's purely social conditioning that makes someone want to have kids.

I'm not saying social conditioning doesn't enter into childbearing at all. I think it plays a part in the amount of kids people tend to want to have; in the motivations they're willing to publicly articulate; and how child-rearing duties are conceptualized and divided.

But it seems really wacky to me to posit that the only reason someone might want to reproduce is that society has told them to. We're a sexually reproductive species; we have drives oriented toward making babies! We can ignore and circumvent these drives, but they're there, same as they're there for every other animal on the planet.

Christians don't like the idea that we're animals. But I feel sometimes as though non-Christians in our society are little different. Perhaps it's the fact that our culture is heavily influenced by Christianity, and its values trickle down and permeate our thinking, even when we think we've stepped outside of it. Perhaps that's the real social conditioning: the notion that we're somehow Not Animals, and so are not subject to the baser instincts associated with them. But we are animals, and even though we're possessed of a high degree of self-awareness, there are many aspects of ourselves that are at heart animalistic. One of them is the desire for offspring.

not for me. i just want some cats.

I'd rather have a cat than a kid and I'm allergic to cats.

I find this ironic considering a lot of christians act like anybody who never gets married or wants kids is less than human.

Celibacy exists.

DA

Okay? What does that have to do with Christians judging people who aren't married/don't have kids?

ayrt
Christianity is big on celibacy duh. Priests, monasteries, etc.

DA
I think Catholicism more than Christianity in general is big on celibacy. IDK I was raised catholic and I'm not North-American and celibacy is a big thing for us. I look at protestants and it's not the same at all ? Like priests can have families and it's pretty strange to me... doesn't really make sense at all.

They all have monks. Looking at the countries, catholics have larger families than protestants but Idk much.

AYART
MMMH, you are right on the monk point and almost any religious having their version of them (the nuns and celibacy dichotomy is especially prominent), but larger families does not correlate with celibacy rates.
In a religious context, if you don't have a wife/husband/partner you are going to be celibate because people usually don't have sex outside of marriage because it's deemed "wrong" (or have sex and hide it for shame).
If you are religious and married you have kids, often times this result in a large family (because highly religious people often don't use contraception and/or are against abortion). It's not really correlated.

Curious, though, my perspective is that catholic people are way stricter with celibacy vows, but I wonder if it's just my bias. It probably is!

DA
Orthodox Christianity isn't, speak for yourself. Priests are actually looked down if they don't have a wife with million of kids.
But also there is this interesting divide. It's OK to be celibate if you do it in the name of the god. If you don't want children just because you are trash human

Orthodox Christianity has monasteries and it's not against contraception whatsoever. What are you smoking? Look at Greece, do you see huge birth rates.

DA
celibacy is voluntarily not having sex. ever. It absolutely has nothing to do with having protected sex (which correlated with lower birth rates), though...

@ nonny above
>>But also there is this interesting divide. It's OK to be celibate if you do it in the name of the god. If you don't want children just because you are trash human

EH, religion is all about nonsensical contradiction. but in this case it's simply the fact that if you have sex then the sex should ultimately be an act of love to God, so it should produce children. every thing you do should be a service to God, be it not having sex (so it's a "punishment" and it cleanse the soul to love God even more purely) or having sex (you are procuring more sheep to God and enlarging His flock).
if you have sex just because it's fun it's considered a sin of the flesh. You are just indulging in the pleasure and "not suffering" or not "producing life".
At least, this is what my catholic upbringing teached me. (I myself am not religious)
(in this incredible debate non religious celibate people don't exist because every God loving person know that asexuality et al. doesn't exist *rolling eyes*)

You raise some valid points.

Greece isn't the only country with Orthodox Christianity, you know.
There is a word of differences between monasteries and priests. Oh tell me more about religion practiced in my fucking country.
Anyway, I don't know why are you so hang on celibacy since church has a great divide between people choosing not to have children and people choosing to serve almighty god.

yeah, well, some of us don't curese at our country. Orthodox religion does not promote the thing you think it promotes.

Surprise, you're not the only one living in an Orthodox Christianity country so you don't get to claim any kind of expertise.

We have a sex drive but no making baby drive. In the past the two were linked together.

I agree on Social Conditioning reason and Financial Gain too, as in kids can work and care for parents somewhere in poor countries.

We absolutely have a making baby drive that's linked to sex drive. The idea that we're the only species on the planet that doesn't is silly exceptionalism.

ayrt
no animal has condoms. No other animals are like humans. What a silly argument.

But there are other animals who can self-abort or reabsorb a fetus if they think that A) it won't thrive in their current environment or B) having the baby will put the mother at risk.

I was raised in an Evangelical Christian household, so I had to do a lot of work in my 20s to look at what I wanted versus what I was told to want. Anyway, 33 now and finally realizing I *would* like to have kids as a personal choice. I want to (and am prepared to) care for somebody other than myself; it isn’t just “you should have a kid because that’s what everybody in our community does.” Too bad I can’t even afford to have a pet right now, let alone a human baby. :P

It's a sensible idea for women not to bear children, once they know all of the risks, which are many and varied. I had a fairly decent sex education, and I didn't know half the risks involved in pregnancy and childbirth, let alone in tying myself to a man, and the risks involved in being pregnant with a man around. Now these risks are becoming more widely known, it's no wonder women are saying to hell with that.

LMAO.

yeah. Also expensive.

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