[ SECRET POST #6438 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6438 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.
[Takehito Koyasu (voice actor)]



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02.



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03.
[sailor moon, ouran high-school club]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 13 secrets from Secret Submission Post #920.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Naoko Takeuchi described Haruka as both male and female. That is literally the definition of nonbinary.

Haruhi says she doesn't care what gender people see her as. That is literally canonically falling within the definition of nonbinary.

Nobody has to identify as anything they don't want to, and these characters being fictional and written in a time before most people knew what nonbinary meant (not because it didn't exist) makes it harder to say what they are -- they can't canonically identify as anything they weren't written as canonically saying they are. We don't know if these characters would say "I'm nonbinary" if they had the language for it, because they aren't real. But they also do, canonically, fall into categories that would make them able to correctly identify that way if they had the language.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

*"literally falling within the definition of nonbinary" I should have said up there about Haruka as well

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, the Haruhi thing is a stretch. You can be a cis man who doesn't care if people call him she/her and think he's a woman, or a cis woman who doesn't care if people call her he/him or think she's a man, because who cares if people get it wrong?

I'm not OP and don't care what headcanons people want to have, more power to 'em, just saying "don't really care" could easily be cis and applies to many cis people.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

SA

By this I mean, "I don't care how people see me" = not necessarily NB. That is all about presentation. "My gender identity or how I identify" is distinct from "what other people perceive me to be."

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

You can be a "cis man" who is actually nonbinary if you choose to embrace that label and not care if people think you are a woman. You can also decide you are a cis man, but that's also a choice. If you don't care what gender people see you as, you can start identifying as nonbinary at any time, or not.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Right, that's the point I'm making. Haruhi could be NB but the post states it as though she definitely is in canon because she doesn't care how people see her. And that's not strong enough proof to definitively say she can't be cis.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

SA

To be extremely clear I do not care if characters are NB or not, more NB characters would be cool, I just dislike the conflation of "gender identity" and "gender presentation" because those are distinct things.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

That's what people were saying 10 years ago, too. Funny how that works.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I exist and am nonbinary and love girly things. I'm not Not Like Other Girls, because you can't be Not Like Other Girls unless you're a girl.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Gender is a set of human concepts and ideas that we use to organize and make sense of the observed biological phenomena of sex. It is a set of labels that we have come up with. "Nonbinary" is one concept that exists within that framework of human concepts and ideas.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, a TERF.

I love it when people expose their whole ass and you can safely ignore anything they say.

One of my best friends has been identifying as both male and female long before they started using they/them pronouns, and they did not get that language from tumblr. I myself slide around from "eh, woman's fine" to "no thanks" depending on the day. I'm not even going to touch "nor is there an in-between gamete," because I don't have the time to explain the hilarious ways this is wrong.

Sorry (not sorry) the existence of people outside the binary is threatening to you. Sounds like a personal problem. Please stop making it something other people have to deal with.

(frozen comment)

[ariakas]

Eh, kind of? This wasn't Word of God, or even Haruka herself saying this, this was Michiru, and the actual manga line could be translated as "both masculine and feminine (qualities)," has "both the strengths of male and female," or if you read it the most literally, Haruka is intersex, because gender terms aren't used, sex terms are.

On the other hand, Takeuchi is on the record saying "only women can be Sailor Guardians". Which means that at the very least for the above line to be interpreted as Haruka being on the gender spectrum outside womanhood in some way, she or he is definitely bigender and not nonbinary.

Also this line doesn't exist in the anime canon at all (plus the whole Sailor Stars thing breaking "only women can be Sailor Guardians" which Takeuchi was super pissed about, so it's clearly a different universe).

I have no issues with interpretations of Haruka as gender diverse and I'm glad that rep is out there, but it's an equally valid interpretation to say the character is a butch lesbian with "both masculine and feminine qualities" or even an intersex woman as it is to say they're nonbinary/bigender. (I'd argue that the former is a more accurate interpretation of anime canon and the latter manga canon, but that's a whole other essay - the character is drawn differently depending on boy mode/girl mode in the manga - as you can see above (they literally have different face lengths and nose shapes) - but not in the anime has completely different patterns of dress and speech, including self-referential pronouns, in the 90s anime vs the manga.)