fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6470 ]

[ SECRET POST #6470 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6470 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #925.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My only issue, and it's a very minor one--as in I don't feel strongly enough to die on a hill about it, is that it seems like women who read M/M have no interest in M/M written by men. Particularly gay/bisexual men. So, the women who write it get to interpret how M/M relationships are seen and consumed in literature.

I've read and enjoyed a lot of M/M written by women, and there are little nuances that come off as very... uninformed. And often, it lacks a recognizable gay/bisexual male perspective. It's so telling that even without knowing the authors' names, it's easy to figure out a woman is the writer.

Women can, of course, write M/M if they want and do it well. Any writer should write whatever they want to write, but it irks how gay and bisexual male voices are overwhelmingly drowned out by usually straight, white women when it comes to the M/M genre, which is a shame considering how small the market is in the first place.

Having read lots of m/m books by gay men, I don't feel this at all. In fact, very often I find myself reading something in one of those books that I just know people would be jumping all over for being "not how gay guys really are" if a woman had written it. For example, a frequent complaint is that you know it was written by a woman if one of the male characters giggles. Welp, turns out gay men write about boys and men giggling, too!

Uh, no? That's not the kind of thing I'm talking about. Not at all.

I mean things like connecting with other gay/bisexual men out in the wild--the experience is just as varied as when straight people do it. But you wouldn't know that from most M/M written by women.

I mean hygiene, diet, pre-prep, clean-up, and those sorts of things gay/bisexual men have to do before, during, and after sex. Those are all details gay/bisexual men deal with that many women don't know about or have no genuine interest in exploring because it's admittedly NOT sexy and gets in the way of the fantasy. Believe me, I know where they're coming from, but it adds that extra bit of submersion.

And all that's fine! The world's not so progressive that we can turn our nose up at representation because straight/queer women write it. But their take is not ours (gay and bisexual men).

Yet women who write M/M have set the tone of what kind of M/M lit is consumed. It's mostly their books that are turned into movies and TV shows. Because let's be real, women buy those books and watch that media more than men, and money talks.

I mean, no hate, but it is what it is.

This is such a weird take. A lot of men-written porn also doesn't include the long prep. And a lot of women-written m/f or f/f porn doesn't include a lot of stuff that gets in a way of a fantasy.

You're missing my point and applying antagonism where I do not intend it.

I alluded to a lot of what you mentioned in my above post. And you accidentally landed on my larger point when you mentioned 'fantasy,' another thing I noted in my response.

Whose fantasy? Women's. Which, again, is OK! But their fantasy isn't concerned with the inner world of actual gay and bisexual men.

Again, it's lit for women, written by women, and that's great. I'm not saying they can't create what they want. But they are flooding the M/M market with something that bears little connection to living, breathing gay/bisexual men and our experiences. They are writing about those groups without concern for them or their voices and replacing them with their own as if they speak from them. RATHER THEY MEAN TO OR NOT.

That's the real issue.

You can obviously disagree, but this has been an issue in the gay/bisexual male community for some time now. And from your response, that seems to surprise you (you called it a weird take). I highly recommend you take the time to research the issue further. You can find years' worth of discussion on the topic if you care to.

Have a good night.

Quit speaking for all gay/bi men. I find "hygiene, diet, pre-prep and clean-up" boring as all get out. Your corner echo chamber is just as bad as what you're condemning. Fuck off.

Wow! Jesus Christ, Not op but are you really telling a gay or bi person to shut up? Really? Somehow, I doubt your either. No queer person would silence another. I bet your a salty het swerving wildly out of your lane so you suck off other whiny hets invading spaces they don't belong in! Did you vote for Trump too?LOL!

Mm, nope, I am entitled to tell a gay dude he is fucking stupid if what he is saying is fucking stupid. We don't do that "How dare you speak over XYZ" shit here.

Of course your homophobic. Can't say I'm surprised. LOL

My homophobic what?

Re: NAYRT

(Anonymous) - 2024-09-23 17:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NAYRT

(Anonymous) - 2024-09-23 17:28 (UTC) - Expand

Queer people silence each other all the time, my guy. I don't know how many times I've heard my fellow gay men tell lesbians to sit down and shut up. Or hell, how transmascs get treated by queers as well as TERFs.

But nice way to accuse me of being homophobic when I'm calling out the well-known misogyny among gay men. But no, I'm not het. I'm sorry I ruined your fantasy of all gay men being nice and sweet and understanding to each other?

Sure you are, sweaty. Sure, you are. LOL

Have you ever actually met a gay man, Karen?

Do I need to start linking queer infighting before you listen, Kevin?

"Surely, No True Scotsman would disagree with me," cried the hypersensitive narcissist.

You can't pretend you're saying women's fantasies are okay if you're also accusing them of flooding the market. At best, you're saying women can have their fantasies but keep them to themselves. Which is all an imaginary concern to begin with, because there's a huge market for m/m written by men. Maybe you just haven't noticed because you only read fanfic. Or maybe it bothers you so much that any female-written published m/m exists at all that your mind magnifies the amount that exists into an amount capable of drowning out everything by men.

I am not even going into the whole whataboutmen of this all where you say that fantasies are okay but not like this, because this stupid girls. I just really "love" you implying that women do not know what anal sex is.

Why do straight white women always gotta Karen their way into everything?

If you are AYRT before it's no wonder you are so wrong about gay/bi men writing about prep. You consider me "straight white woman" for only reason of not liking my comment. (I am only one of those but it doesn't even matter)

Straight women are gonna straight women I guess. Stay in your lane, Karen!

The only Karen in this thread is you.

You're a straight white woman pretending to be a gay man in order to win internet arguments. Go suck your husband's dick and stop fucking things up for queer people, you dumb cunt.

Yeah, no. "Hygiene, diet, pre-prep, clean-up" are things I that are pretty hit and miss in male written gay porn as well and as you already note yourself, that's intentional. This is like saying "all those fantasy novels where the characters are on long journeys through the wilderness are soooo unrealistic because we don't read about their bathroom and grooming activities all the time". Some details are simply dropped in favour of the fantasy.

Please read my response above.

Have a good night.

I don't think you've read many gay novels written by gay and Bi men because they really do skip all the prep. Because guess what it's boring to go through in real life and equally boring to read. Stop assuming it's only women doing that and read more stories by men.

The prep and hygiene is honestly such a random hill to die on, you're entitled to your preference but I don't feel the same (I'm a bi guy top). Most m/m by men I read skims over those details too, unless it's a realistic slice of life romance or something with sex scenes included... I've seen PWP fic by women and men that does include "unglamorous" details like that but I wouldn't say it's more common for women to leave it out.

I was kind of with you more generally, that sometimes women don't quite nail gay male dynamics or nuances in a way that feels immersive for me and it can be a bit odd to read (it is just a fantasy though, I pretty much shrug and move on if I'm not feeling it). Gay male erotica by men is easy to find if you want to read it though. I often prefer gay erotica by women, there are some amazing authors out there.

Also someone else said this but I feel like you're kind of implying it's not common for women to do anal, a ton of women are actually very familiar with preparing to take something in the ass, plenty of women have anal strap on experience as well, it's not some special secret that only we know about.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #6470 ]

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