Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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fandomsecrets2024-10-03 06:41 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2024-10-03 06:41 pm
[ SECRET POST #6481 ]
⌈ Secret Post #6481 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #926.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Posts like this make me sad and angry.
(Anonymous) 2024-10-04 11:58 am (UTC)(link)Yeah, but there's a flip side to this that I saw when I first had my kid, and which made me so frustrated that I left the moms' groups I had joined.
A lot of moms will not tell their husbands what they want or need. They expect him to just know, and get very upset when it turns out that he doesn't. I saw tons of problems that could have been solved by the mother simply saying, for example, "I gotta get out of the house." But so many of them absolutely refused to do this. They thought they should be able to subtlely hint their way into getting what they needed, but that isn't how men work, even when with other men (hell, that isn't how a lot of women work!).
Beyond that, despite complaining about how their husbands don't do any childcare or housework, I discovered that many wouldn't let him do it. I saw so many moms who wouldn't leave their kids home with their husbands because, "he's never taken care of them alone before!" Well, yeah -- and he never will, so long as you refuse to leave them in his care! Some of them, when they did finally leave the kids at home, couldn't stop texting and calling their husbands to check on things (I remember one instance where I could hear the husband exasperatedly telling her to stop calling and just have fun, because everything was fine. This offended her and proved to her that he couldn't handle the task), and found it so stressful that they decided it wasn't worth doing it again.
I'm not saying there aren't men who do everything in their power to avoid childcare and housework. There certainly are. But at the same time, there's a particular anxious style among some mothers that not only enables men to shirk these duties, but also actively works to prevent them from taking their share of the load. My experience is that my fellow moms who speak openly about their needs and "let go" when it comes to the kids and the house have much more equitable partnerships with their husbands.
Re: Posts like this make me sad and angry.
(Anonymous) 2024-10-04 07:33 pm (UTC)(link)"A lot of moms will not tell their husbands what they want or need. They expect him to just know, and get very upset when it turns out that he doesn't."
Here's a flip side for you: who told the moms what's wanted and needed from them, or did the moms have to use their brains and common sense and figure it out because they're adults? Sure, nobody expects anyone to be a mind reader. But I hear this argument waaaaaaay too often from and about men who are like, "How am I supposed to know the baby's diaper needed changing?" and "I didn't realize that it was hard on you to be the only one getting up in the middle of the night when the baby cries!" and "Why didn't anyone tell me that we're out of clean clothes?"
The truth is, men don't do a lot of the physical AND emotional labor of figuring out household chores and issues. They expect their girlfriends and wives to do it for them (just as their mothers did it when they were kids), and to tell them what needs doing, when, and maybe explain how to do it - but not in a nagging way, ofc, because then they won't do it, so there! This is common as dirt, which is why I'm skeptical when I'm told that oh gosh, maybe it's the WOMEN'S FAULT, too?
"But so many of them absolutely refused to do this. They thought they should be able to subtlely hint their way into getting what they needed, but that isn't how men work, even when with other men (hell, that isn't how a lot of women work!)."
I agree it'd be best if people used their words and were straight forward about what they needed from their partners, but there's a reason why women hint and hope - it's because a lot of men do not like being told what to do by women or they straight up won't listen. Also, as described above, a lot of these "oh gosh just tell me what you need" tends to be really obvious stuff that women somehow had to figure out on their own despite not being rocket scientists. Relevant:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/weaponized-incompetence
The number of women who've had to delicately, diplomatically hint to their male partner that he should shower because eau de ball sweat isn't universally appealing is staggering. The reason why they hint is because very few people respond well to being told that their personal hygiene is lacking. Likewise, it's hard for a mom to tell daddy that kids need to be fed and bathed on a regular schedule without some kind of angry, defensive pushback because dad suddenly realized he's a moron and a bad father and he's mad at the messenger because he's embarrassed.
"Beyond that, despite complaining about how their husbands don't do any childcare or housework, I discovered that many wouldn't let him do it. I saw so many moms who wouldn't leave their kids home with their husbands because, "he's never taken care of them alone before!" Well, yeah -- and he never will, so long as you refuse to leave them in his care! Some of them, when they did finally leave the kids at home, couldn't stop texting and calling their husbands to check on things (I remember one instance where I could hear the husband exasperatedly telling her to stop calling and just have fun, because everything was fine. This offended her and proved to her that he couldn't handle the task), and found it so stressful that they decided it wasn't worth doing it again."
Let me offer you another perspective. One of my best friends was one of those anxious moms. Her son was 10 months old before she left him alone with his dad, and she only managed it for 45 minutes. Shame on her! Well... except that she had a reason to be anxious. Her husband thought he was a child-raising champ, of course. But she knew full well that when they're at home together and he's supposed to be keeping an eye on the kids, what he actually does is retreat to his study with his laptop and fuck around without noticing anything short of the house burning down. Kids screaming, making messes, getting into trouble? It's all fine, sweetie! You worry too much! Go and have fun!
#notalldads, of course! But when the woman is the default parent, I (no kids and no desire to have any) can completely understand the anxiety felt in stepping back and letting the B-team take over. Unless, of course, the B-team has actually demonstrated they know what they're doing, are willing and able to take an active part in childcare and know what to do. But of course, if they were doing that, they wouldn't be the B-team.
"My experience is that my fellow moms who speak openly about their needs and "let go" when it comes to the kids and the house have much more equitable partnerships with their husbands."
My experience is that the success of this depends heavily on what kind of husband the mom has. Being willing to let go and advocate for your own needs doesn't do a whole lot if you're married to a lazy lout who's culturally internalized the belief that childcare/housework is strictly women's work.
DA
(Anonymous) 2024-10-04 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)This one gets me. Woof, ok.
In my own life I have recently gotten serious about our standards of house keeping. The two roommates who do zero chores are getting kicked out and my husband who does 0.25 a chore is getting kicked into gear. His most basic comment was "I don't realize when something needs to be done" and/or "Having someone tell me when something needs to be done really helps me" and I about bit through my fingers like they were carrots. I shouldn't have to tell him when to clean the toilet, he should 1) look at the toilet 2) see that it isn't clean 3) clean it. This isn't mind reading, because the answer is not in my mind. It's on the porcelain. I compromised with myself by signing him up for the same cleaning-reminder app I use so the APP could tell him to clean the toilet every week. Yes, I had to tell the app to tell him to clean, but whatever. Baby steps.
In media, especially in comedy clips on facebook, I see the "Wife decoder" joke. But it's always something fucking obvious like ::saddest look you've ever seen in your life:: "It's nothing honey" --> "I'm sad you forgot my birthday" and ::folds laundry aggressively:: "I hope you have a lot of fun golfing all weekend" --> "I want your help with laundry and also to spend time with you." And, like, I know it's exaggerated for a joke but J.F.C. the comments that come after. If you cannot understand the absolute basics of human existence you should be legally ineligible from entering into a contract like marriage.
And like? Are you like this everywhere else? Do you need someone to remind you of deadlines and procedures all day at work? Do you need someone to remind you to fill up on gas when you're getting low? To turn on your windshield wipers when it rains? To show up at the commuter train before it leaves? To bring the business presentation to the big business meeting? THEN WHY CAN"T YOU LOAD A DISHWASHER OR REMEMBER A BIRTHDAY <3
In short. To be brief. In closing. Whenever a man says he "Isn't a mind reader" I have to assume he thinks life isn't his responsibility. He expects information to be processed and extruded by someone else. When this doesn't happen he assumes that the information extruder is broken, rather than that it is his responsibility to be aware of the world around him.
(And yes, not all men/women. Gomez Adams would NEVER)