[ SECRET POST #6487 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6487 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 12 secrets from Secret Submission Post #926.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: The merfolk conundrum

[(Anonymous)]

This is an odd debate. I'm not sure I follow the logic here... being able to move around on both land and sea wouldn't automatically or easily translate into being able to conquer and hold territories in both. It's an advantage, but I'm not sure it's that significant of an advantage. You'd still face many of the same problems as any other group existing in that universe re: conquering AND maintaining your rule over a conquered people.

Meanwhile, the argument for being more primitive in terms of technology makes more sense. There's less drive to develop modes of transport underwater when your main way of getting around is swimming. Agriculture and manufacturing (two big factors in how large populations are established and sustained over time) would be limited because of the environment. I can see hunting and a more nomadic lifestyle being prevalent undersea, which is going to limit your population density. Undersea people could have border towns on the coast for that sort of thing, of course, with trade back and forth as well as trade with non-merpeople.

But how would those towns be defended? Where are the armies going to be based? Who's commanding them, paying for their quartering, their salaries, their food/shelter, and how are they getting from one place to another? What sort of weapons are available? If your power base is in a border town or undersea, how are you going to maintain your power as you get further and further away from your base? What sort of system of government do the merpeople have and how is that maintained in each separate environment? What reason would they have for invading other territories in the first place?

Re: The merfolk conundrum

[forgottenjester]

I would never accuse myself of being particularly intelligent. So I'm sorry if I come off as dumb when I ask for this kind of debate on this premise. I just figured if there was a tribe of humans capable of water domination and the the potential for land ownership too then would they not be capable of being very powerful? Most merfolk are portrayed at a human-level intelligence and having similar goals/personalities. So to me they're like humans but with more shit going on.

I guess I assumed they'd at least try to be on the same technological level as humans because the two are neighbors. While the two may not be in competition for survival in their natural habitats, normally I found kingdoms and such don't want to be able to be bowled-over should the other decide to be aggressive.

And that is the hardest part. I could see then attempting to maintain some land to keep up with air-based luxuries and sciences. If this is what they want then why couldn't they maintain a defense in the same way other human coastal towns do?

Re: The merfolk conundrum

[(Anonymous)]

It's not a dumb question, just... maybe a bit of a leap in logic? Like I said, being able to live both underwater and on land is an advantage, but I'm not sure it's so big of an advantage that it would lead to world domination. There are just too many other factors involved, least of all being the issue of whether or not merpeople would want to dominate the world just because they can live in both types of environments. After all, look at our modern world. The technology exists for people to survive in all sorts of environments, but that doesn't mean people want to do so in great numbers. What's driving the merpeople, then?

Re: The merfolk conundrum

[forgottenjester]

I do wanna honestly say thank you for taking the time to talk this out with me. You've made a lot of good points and made me think in a new way other people haven't.

Yeah, there are a lot of what-if factors. Every time I have this conversation someone brings up a whole new perspective I never even thought of before! It's exciting.

As for what's driving them beyond greed and want of power? Hmm, could be racism or maybe they're just a warlike people. Oh! Or there could be something deeper in the ocean preying on them making the shallows and land technically safer. I suppose it could also be a want to not be left behind. There are a lot of reasons and I suspect you or I could come up with more. Each would most likely alter the way they approach and view the land and its people.

Re: The merfolk conundrum

[(Anonymous)]

No problem, it's been fun talking with you!

That's an interesting possibility, especially the predator driving them towards shallower waters and/or land. (I'm focusing on that, because there are plenty of human groups who are war-like or racist, but haven't managed to achieve world domination for many reasons.) But it does bring up more potential issues... I'd think in that case, the main obstacles to domination would be:

* they're stuck between land and deeper ocean, with nowhere to retreat to. Strategically, that's not a desirable position if the border towns are attacked.

* There's also the question of how a deep sea predator might affect some of the economic backbones of coastal towns: fishing, ports (with accompanying taxes) and trade via sea.

* the possibility that they're behind human technology, or that their technology isn't suited for life on land, much less a long term, long range war

* lack of allies if they haven't established much of a power base on land - humans have had a lot more time and opportunity to establish cities, political alliances, resources, etc. than the merpeople, presumably. That's going to be a much bigger advantage than being able to exist in two environments.

Re: The merfolk conundrum

[forgottenjester]

If the predator theory proves true they would essentially end up fight a war on both fronts. It would almost be wiser to try and just make a break for it and be a swarm of refugees to land. If that was the case I could only see them waging war instead out of pride and a fear that being a refugee would be worse than the monster.

The rest are good points too. Such a position would mean that it may be more beneficial to be sort of trade their services to humans for sanctuary. They could help guide boats or get things off the sea floor for aid.

There is another option. They could create an agreement with Humans to form a sort of protection ring. "Help us make sure this doesn't get to you," type of thing.