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fandomsecrets2009-11-01 06:44 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2009-11-01 06:44 pm
[ SECRET POST #1031 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1031 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
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102.
[Friends]
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103.
[NCIS]
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104.
[Legally Blonde/Ace Attorney]
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105.
[De Cape & De Crocs]
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106.
[Monk]
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107.
[Mew]
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108.
[X-Factor]
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109.
[NCIS]
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110.
[Skins]
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111.
[Psychonauts]
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112.
[Better Off Ted]
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113.
[Fist of the North Star]
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114.
[Making Fiends]
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115.
[Death Note]
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116.
[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!]
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117.
[Heroes]
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118.
[House]
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119.
[Monk]
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120.
[craig ferguson ]
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121.
[Shugo Chara]
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122.
[Iron Man Armored Adventures]
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123.
[The Irrefutable Truth About Demons]
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124.
[Megaman X: Command Mission]
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125.
[American Idol]
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126.
[Sean Lennon and Dhani Harrison]
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127.
[James Sutton/Hollyoaks/Emmerdale]
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128.
[team fortress 2]
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129.
[Star Trek, Star Wars: KOTOR]
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130.
[Pushing Daisies]
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131.
[Harry Potter]
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132.
[Tekken, LoZ/SSBB]
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133.
[Fusion Fall]
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134.
[Terry Pratchett]
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135.
[House]
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136.
[Dragonheart]
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137.
[Ghost in the shell 2: Innocence]
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138.
[The Thick of It]
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139.
[Youtube Let's Play]
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140.
[Supernatural]
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141.
[YGO]
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142.
[Bandom]
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143.
[Michael Sheen, A Song of Ice and Fire]
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144.
[White Collar]
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145.
[Brooke Davis/Sam Winchester, Sam McPherson/Brooke McQueen]
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146.
[The Hot Chick]
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147.
[Torchwood, Fourteen]
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148.
[Sengoku Basara]
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149.
[Skins]
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150.
[Nathan Willett, CWK]
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151.
[Strictly Come Dancing]
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152.
[Wes Anderson's Fantastic Mr. Fox]
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153.
[The Office]
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154.
[Sgt. Frog]
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155.
[Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Harry Potter]
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156.
[Smallville/Legion of Super-Heroes/REBELS/Batman Begins/Scrubs/The Office]
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157.
[Phineas and ferb]
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158.
[Star Trek, Perry Rhodan]
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159.
[Shortpacked]
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160.
[Real Genius]
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161.
[Drake and Josh]
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162.
[Shakespeare in Love]
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163.
[ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.Com]
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164.
[Sesame Street]
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165.
[Phantom of the Opera (Leroux)/Lord of the Rings]
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166.
[Bored to Death]
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167.
[White Collar]
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168.
[Tombstone, Val Kilmer]
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169.
[Karla]
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170.
[Dylan McDermott]
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171.
[Jesus Christ/Lucifer]
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172.
[criminal minds]
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173.
[White Collar]
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174.
[The Sandman]
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175.
[Kate Beaton/Hark! A Vagrant/Mystery Solving Teens]
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176.
[Harry Potter/The Trial of Larry Langford]
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177.
[[Class of the Titans]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 20 pages, 485 secrets from Secret Submission Post #148.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
no subject
Also if I recall correctly, she's still just a crossdressing princess in the manga. After Sheik is wounded in the desert and she's brought to the Spirit Temple (pretty sure it was the Spirit Temple) to be treated, her shawl falls away and Link walks in, and realizes that her face is the same feminine Princess Zelda-face, only older. She's not male, she's Zelda, same as in the game. http://www.onemanga.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Ocarina_of_Time/13/05/
People are entitled to their preferences, but it gets extremely annoying when people insist that Sheik is male/a separate person canonically, when it isn't true. Not only is it not true, but it also takes a lot of the power and badassery away from Zelda's character, IMO, because her main method of helping out in the game was disguising herself as a boy for seven years and ninjaing around Hyrule teaching Link songs. If she didn't do that, then what did she do? Sit on her ass and wait to be captured for seven years? I just really don't think so.
But the majority of fans I see that want Sheik to be male are the yaoi fangirls that want to slash him with Link, anyway. -shrug- Pretty-boy on pretty-boy action. Not saying everyone is that way, but just the majority that I've come across.
no subject
I've just always thought of Sheik a male, and prefer his character like that, even before I liked Sheik/Link. I mean, until they said after Brawl that Sheik was a female, the gender was always whatever people preferred.
People who still insist that him being male is canon might not realize Sheik is officially female now, or like me, they're just not used to thinking of him like that.
With Zelda, I know in some games in the series she doesn't have much of a presence anyway, like in Twilight Princess. So it never bothered me and I've never considered it taking away from her character at all.
I guess I'm just one of the few people who prefer him as a male for reasons other than wanting to see boy-on-boy action.
There isn't much fanwork for male!Sheik/Link anymore anyway.no subject
And while she might not have presence in some games (the ones that come immediately to mind for me are Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask, both of which are very high up on my favorites), in Ocarina of Time she did. She was quite badass in that game, and it detracts from that to take some of it away. It's like . . . It's like in Twilight Princess (my least favorite LoZ game, incidentally) if you took everything that Midna did and said it was all Link's doing, or some other character's doing. It would make her effectively nothing more than a tagalong character, and would detract from what she did. Zelda was badass in OoT and WW (even moreso in WW, despite my preference for ninjas over pirates), and it irritates me when people reduce her to nothing more than a person who gets captured when she actually does something useful in select games. If people want a princess that gets captured all the time, they can go chill with Peach. Let me have my crossdressing ninja princess and be done with it. xD
Also, I used to see quite a few fics on FF.N for male!Sheik/Link, but I haven't been over there for awhile. Is it gone now?no subject
I don't see Zelda as especially bad ass in OoT, but that's just because of my view of Sheik as a separate whatever, so he was the one doing all those things. But I loved Zelda in WW, so it's really just the Sheik thing that leads to me seeming like a bad Zelda fan. D8
You're definitely allowed to have your crossdressing ninja princess! I really just prefer my male side character who's not much of a hero. :)
I don't read too much stuff on FF.Net, but I can only think of two really good fics/really good authors. The community for the pairing on LJ is pretty quiet -- you only get a few people posting every now and then. Ditto for fanart.no subject
Oh, also? The manga also says that Zelda's mind was sealed away (http://www.onemanga.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Ocarina_of_Time/13/13/). In that case, whose mind is it? And Link is pretty firm (http://www.onemanga.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Ocarina_of_Time/14/03/) on considering Sheik as a separate, non-Zelda person.
We know nothing about those seven years. Yeah, Zelda might have sat around for seven years, or she might have done something else. We only see Sheik while Link is awake - in that case, what did HE do over those seven years? And I find it sad that people only think Zelda is awesome if she has to pretend to be male. If she's feminine, that makes her weak, right? Yeah. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Okay, so she doesn't have badass ninja skillz (if she was Sheik, why didn't she jump out of that ring of fire in Ganon's castle when their lives were in danger?). So what? Neither do I! Doesn't make her weak.
Look, the actual game canon is ambiguous to the point that it can be interpreted in about half a dozen ways and still be consistent with what is presented. The manga doesn't clear a lot up, short of providing one of those explanations. It COULD be Zelda's mind in a physically male body. It could be an entirely different mind - the manga is pretty firm on the fact that Zelda's mind was sealed away. Indicating that it's a DIFFERENT mind. Just about the only explanation that doesn't work is Zelda in drag, because no WAY Sheik's body structure is feminine! I know girls who have crossdressed, it doesn't make you look like Sheik.
Oh, and just to keep this in one comment, you commented below:
But even if the personality is male, her anatomy is still female -- thus, she is technically female, and the slash pairings wouldn't work anyway. :/ I mean, unless she went through medieval surgery/spellwork to change her physical anatomy, but I just don't even know if that would be possible and I'm not sure I want to think about it that far, because that could get into some very messy details.
Uh, magic, maybe? (I am quite happy to say it was Zelda's mind in there with a physically male body, but that's just ONE interpretation.) Since, you know, there is evidence of it in the games. If you can give me a plausible explanation on how non-magical means (chestbinding, armour padding, medieval contact lenses and being a quick-change artist, apparently) can physically change someone's colouring, entire proportions (Zelda: hips and shoulders at same width, smaller waist than both hips and shoulders, narrow arms; Sheik: broad shoulders, narrow hips AND waist, muscled arms), and physicality, I'd be pleased to hear it. Seriously. I'm a science student, I'm open to convincing evidence!
no subject
And yes, Zelda's MIND was sealed away. Another PERSONA was created. That nixes out the theory that it was a different person (as in, a different physical body). That also says nothing of the anatomy, and in fact leads us to believe that her anatomy stayed the same. And either way, while I do adore the manga and while I think it proves my point, the manga isn't canon. It's like comparing the Pokemon manga/anime to the Pokemon games. The canon just isn't the same and doesn't fit. After all, if it did, you'd also have to believe that Volvagia was Link's pet dragon from his childhood, as just one example for how it doesn't really fit. But in any case, Sheik is still Zelda in the manga. They aren't separate physical individuals, which is what I'm talking about.
You're also taking what I said and twisting it in order to suit your own purposes, something that I don't like. I never said that Zelda had to pretend to be male in order to be badass, so please don't try to twist me into some sort of female-character-hating-fandom-pariah in order to befit your argument.
We can assume that Zelda -- as Sheik -- was going around to repair the damage. And we also know that -- during the course of the gameplay when Link wakes up -- she was still going around trying to help people -- freeing Ruto from beneath the ice, fighting the shadow in the Kakariko Well, etc. -- along with teaching Link songs in order to help him save Hyrule. Again, I repeat my earlier question: if Zelda wasn't doing that, then what was she doing? Sitting around waiting to be captured, I suppose, because there's nothing else that she could have been doing. It has nothing to do with pretending to be male or being weak; it has to do with the fact that there is no other role in the game for her otherwise. There's nothing more that she could have been doing to help Link on his quest, and to take that away from her and give it to some other character -- male or otherwise -- is detracting from the strength her character presented in the game. You better believe it takes strength to hide your true identity for seven years in order to try and save your people, especially when you lived a pretty sheltered life before that. It's the fact that she could pretend to be male for so long that made her strong, not the fact that she did, if that makes sense.
As for why she didn't jump out of the ring of fire, there are two possible explanations:
1) She wasn't in her Sheik costume at that point, and performing ninja acrobatics in a long gown would be rather difficult, IMO. Not that I've tried, but I can only imagine.
2) For the sake of story. Nintendo did not want Zelda helping in the final battle against Ganon (except to hold him in place at the end), and so she didn't do it.
As for the body structure . . . just, come on. The actual game was on the Nintendo 64. While I love the N64 and while the graphics were great for its time, it's not the Wii or any of the newer gen games. They didn't even have easily distinguishable fingers in that game. The graphics were blocky and not all that great. Fact is, the game states pretty clearly that Zelda was Sheik. I don't know if you remember this, but there's this little scene in the Temple of Time after you awaken Nabooru in which Link receives the Light Arrows, and in that same scene there's a flash of light which changes Sheik from Zelda. Zelda then tells you that she was Sheik the entire time, that she disguised herself as a boy for seven years in order to hide from Ganondorf. To me, that's pretty definite.
Also, Sheik's arms looked pretty narrow to me, but then again, so did everyone's save Darunia and Ganondorf. Because again, these were N64 graphics, and OoT wasn't meant to be the most realistic game around with stunning, top-notch graphics that would last through the ages. For the eyes and skin tone, okay, I'll give you magic. But again, that's only part of the disguise that Princess Zelda used to make herself appear as a boy for seven years.
no subject
You cannot make that assumption. We know these facts: that Zelda's mind was sealed away, and that Sheik has a mind. Whether that's another persona or another separate mind is never actually stated - it can go either way. Like I said, what evidence we are given is ambiguous. As for the body, I'm going to defer to the game for that - Sheik's body shape =/= Zelda's body shape.
You're also taking what I said and twisting it in order to suit your own purposes, something that I don't like. I never said that Zelda had to pretend to be male in order to be badass, so please don't try to twist me into some sort of female-character-hating-fandom-pariah in order to befit your argument.
Apologies. I HAVE seen people who have argued that and I made a connection. My bad.
We can assume that Zelda -- as Sheik -- was going around to repair the damage. And we also know that -- during the course of the gameplay when Link wakes up -- she was still going around trying to help people -- freeing Ruto from beneath the ice, fighting the shadow in the Kakariko Well, etc. -- along with teaching Link songs in order to help him save Hyrule. Again, I repeat my earlier question: if Zelda wasn't doing that, then what was she doing?
We can't assume any of that. We're not TOLD what happens during those seven years. We DON'T know what Zelda was doing for those seven years, or what Sheik was doing, or what Impa was doing, or what Malon was doing, or what Saria was doing, or what Ruto was doing, or hell, even what Ganondorf was doing. I suppose that is why there's such thing as fanfiction - make it up! We're not told anything, so fill in the blanks. She doesn't have a role in the game? So did a lot of other Zeldas. What was TP!Zelda doing the entire time during the game? Being either locked up in a tower after having previously surrendered or sealed away inside Midna!
1) She wasn't in her Sheik costume at that point, and performing ninja acrobatics in a long gown would be rather difficult, IMO. Not that I've tried, but I can only imagine.
Well, she magically changed out of it in a flash of light, didn't she? Surely she could magically change back into it if their lives were in danger? I mean, seems to me that that would be practical.
2) For the sake of story. Nintendo did not want Zelda helping in the final battle against Ganon (except to hold him in place at the end), and so she didn't do it.
Or, 3) She couldn't do it because she didn't have the same abilities that Sheik had.
As for the body structure . . . just, come on. The actual game was on the Nintendo 64. While I love the N64 and while the graphics were great for its time, it's not the Wii or any of the newer gen games. They didn't even have easily distinguishable fingers in that game.
Which is why I was going off the official art. Sure, the graphics are ambiguous. The official art? Is not. Compare: Zelda (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/File:Adult_Princess_Zelda_(Ocarina_of_Time).png), Sheik (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sheik.png).
And she says, "I apologise for meeting you in disguise". Present tense. Yes, she met him in disguise - in that scene. And a magical disguise would still be a disguise. So would a living one (the duality scenarios).
But again, that's only part of the disguise that Princess Zelda used to make herself appear as a boy for seven years.
Okay, explain Sheik's torso and arms. Using the official art, which, in lieu of realistic graphics, is the best possible depiction of those two characters. Yes, magic is an explanation. But if you go as far as to change your entire bone structure, muscle structure, and internal organs - as required by the vastly different body shapes - why would you leave female traits? Why not go the whole way? I don't mind it being Zelda's mind, there's nothing that contradicts that, but seriously, it's a male body.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-11-02 03:03 am (UTC)(link)I mean, I agree with Lljscraws (sp?) that, in terms of canon, Sheik is really Zelda in disguise...but I still prefer Sheik as his own person and there is some evidence to support that. I think you gave out really good points ryttu3k :D I also want to add this one too.
So yeah, remember when Sheik is in the illusion desert with Link and doesn't see anything in it? http://www.onemanga.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Ocarina_of_Time/12/16/
If Sheik was still mentally Zelda, she would see past memories of Hyrule being taken over by Ganondorf or other such bad memories right? Sheik is technically a living disguise and therefore doesn't have any of those memories at all.
I'm not saying this is canon though, I get annoyed too when people mistake fact over fiction. But I'm tired of being lumped into that group of "crazed yaoi fans that refuse to see Sheik=Zelda". I'm not really a fan of yaoi anyways dhshljksd (not that it's OMG BAD, its not my cup of tea really :/). I just think Sheik is an interesting character D:
no subject
And yeah, Sheik's definitely an interesting character. And because we don't know a lot about him, that's when fanon and headcanon comes into play! You know, using your imagination ;)
But yeah, thanks :)
no subject
But the majority of fans I see that want Sheik to be male are the yaoi fangirls that want to slash him with Link, anyway. -shrug- Pretty-boy on pretty-boy action. Not saying everyone is that way, but just the majority that I've come across.
Me, I just think the idea of a woman magically disguising themselves as a man right down to the little details of it is a cool idea, and opens up many interesting possibilities. It doesn't make Zelda any less cool, it's just now she's kicking ass with slightly different anatomy.