[ SECRET POST #1031 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1031 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.
[Friends]


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103.
[NCIS]


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104.
[Legally Blonde/Ace Attorney]


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105.
[De Cape & De Crocs]


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106.
[Monk]


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107.
[Mew]


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108.
[X-Factor]


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109.
[NCIS]


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110.
[Skins]


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111.
[Psychonauts]


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112.
[Better Off Ted]


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113.
[Fist of the North Star]


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114.
[Making Fiends]


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115.
[Death Note]


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116.
[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!]


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117.
[Heroes]


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118.
[House]


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119.
[Monk]


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120.
[craig ferguson ]


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121.
[Shugo Chara]


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122.
[Iron Man Armored Adventures]


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123.
[The Irrefutable Truth About Demons]


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124.
[Megaman X: Command Mission]


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125.
[American Idol]


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126.
[Sean Lennon and Dhani Harrison]


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127.
[James Sutton/Hollyoaks/Emmerdale]


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128.
[team fortress 2]


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129.
[Star Trek, Star Wars: KOTOR]


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130.
[Pushing Daisies]


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131.
[Harry Potter]


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132.
[Tekken, LoZ/SSBB]


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133.
[Fusion Fall]


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134.
[Terry Pratchett]


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135.
[House]


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136.
[Dragonheart]


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137.
[Ghost in the shell 2: Innocence]


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138.
[The Thick of It]


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139.
[Youtube Let's Play]


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140.
[Supernatural]


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141.
[YGO]


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142.
[Bandom]


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143.
[Michael Sheen, A Song of Ice and Fire]


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144.
[White Collar]


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145.
[Brooke Davis/Sam Winchester, Sam McPherson/Brooke McQueen]


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146.
[The Hot Chick]


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147.
[Torchwood, Fourteen]


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148.
[Sengoku Basara]


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149.
[Skins]


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150.
[Nathan Willett, CWK]


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151.
[Strictly Come Dancing]


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152.
[Wes Anderson's Fantastic Mr. Fox]


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153.
[The Office]


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154.
[Sgt. Frog]


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155.
[Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Harry Potter]


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156.
[Smallville/Legion of Super-Heroes/REBELS/Batman Begins/Scrubs/The Office]


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157.
[Phineas and ferb]


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158.
[Star Trek, Perry Rhodan]


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159.
[Shortpacked]


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160.
[Real Genius]


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161.
[Drake and Josh]


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162.
[Shakespeare in Love]


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163.
[ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.Com]


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164.
[Sesame Street]


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165.
[Phantom of the Opera (Leroux)/Lord of the Rings]


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166.
[Bored to Death]


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167.
[White Collar]


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168.
[Tombstone, Val Kilmer]


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169.
[Karla]


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170.
[Dylan McDermott]


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171.
[Jesus Christ/Lucifer]


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172.
[criminal minds]


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173.
[White Collar]


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174.
[The Sandman]


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175.
[Kate Beaton/Hark! A Vagrant/Mystery Solving Teens]


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176.
[Harry Potter/The Trial of Larry Langford]


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177.
[[Class of the Titans]



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 20 pages, 485 secrets from Secret Submission Post #148.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I think most of the difference in their bodies CAN be explained away through costuming. Zelda could put tie her hair up and hide it under that turban thin Sheik has, perhaps styling it different in the front, perhaps wearing a wig. The eye color could be explained away by some sort of contact-lense equivalent. Shiek's bandages around his chest look to be tell-tail signs of binding her breasts, and Sheik could be wearing some light armor to explain the masculine looking pecs. The leg musculature is not apparent on Zelda's body, as she is wearing a dress. The only detail that really seems to be majorly different unlikely to explain away with costume changes is arm musculature, and theoretically Sheik's costume could be made of more than form-fitting cloth (though usually padded muscles look exceedingly tacky and fake.) Given that Sheik appears to have a bound chest and utter lack of buldge in the crotch, I'd say it's fairly likely that Sheik is a female attempting to disguise her true gender. Anyway seeing as how larger muscle mass is the only real difference between Sheik and Zelda, I'd say theirs a pretty big leap between using magic like steroids and using magic like steroids AND to grow a dick.

There is no Twilight Princess Sheik. There are only Super Smash Bros Sheik and OoT Shiek. The concept of the SSB series is that the characters of SSB are magically animated toy versions of preexisting video game characters. Though Shiek in Brawl has a bit of an aesthetic update to appear in Twilight Princess style, she's still a toy of an alter-ego whose only preexisting video game appearance is in OoT. It's like saying "Oh, Kirby's gender is never explicitly stated in Brawl. (this may not be true, but I played pretty much all of the game and I don't remember it being referenced) Even though Kirby is stated to be male in some of his own games, Brawl is a different continuity than the Kirby series, so you can't assume Brawl!Kirby is male. Some people think 'Kirby' is the name of the species, like 'yoshi' anyway, so Brawl could have a Female kirby." While actually, that argument isn't completely invalid, it's intuitive to assume that Brawl's Kirby is the male star of the game series. Similarly, you could make the argument "while Zelda undergoes a transformation, it's a different Zelda in a different continuity so you can't assume that it's the same transformation as the one she undergoes in OoT." and it's not completely invalid to say as much. However, to say there is NO SENSE in saying "well, transforming into Sheik is a technique that Zelda only ever uses in OoT, I'm going to assume that she's using the same technique in SSB" is an complete exaggeration. Especially seeing as how Zelda undergoes many of the physical changes she does in OoT. (thicker arms, different hair style, different eye color, etc.)

I guess I will concede that I can theoretically see why you might think that Zelda becomes male in OoT, but it really bugged me when you said there was no sense to make a decision one way or another by drawing parallels between two different continuities. No, Sheik being female in Brawl is not 100% conclusive proof that Sheik is female in OoT. It is, however, strong evidence in favor of Sheik being female in OoT.

[ryttu3k.livejournal.com]

But there's also the fact that Sheik appears to change in to Zelda instantaneously - she doesn't pop out her contacts, take off her wig, unwrap her breasts and get in to her gown - a magical transformation - a complete one - is much more likely. After all, if you had to hide for seven years, would you rather look like a girl dressing as a man, or actually be a man? The latter is a lot less likely to get her killed if ever s/he gets caught.

And yes, Sheik has bandages around his chest. He also has bandages around his ARMS, and I doubt there's a pair of breasts under there. And if you explain the arm bandages as just being Sheikah wraps, then why not the chest ones?

And simply because she'd be completely disproportioned otherwise, if Zelda's arms are THAT slim, I doubt her legs are that muscular. Padding/light armour? Would significantly hinder your movements, and there's the sheer fact that Sheik's shoulders are at a further distance from his head than Zelda's.

And why would you animate a bulge in the first place? o.o I mean, other male characters don't have them either.

And it's not just muscle mass. It's hair style and colour, AND eye colour, AND skin colour (okay, s/he might be wearing magical contacts and a wig - how would a wig stay on with some of those jumps? Getting thrown around by Bongo Bongo? - but how would you explain the different skin colour?), AND it's physical ability (Sheik - can jump. Zelda, as evidenced by Ganon's castle - cannot). It's a bit more than just muscle mass.

And yes, but Brawl!Sheik was based on a design INTENDED for Twilight Princess. She was never intended to be a redesign of OoT!Sheik, she was intended to be a COMPLETELY different character. And that means it's no longer a valid argument for OoT. Plus, again, we don't know the full story. I RP with a Brawl!Sheik who was a seperate Sheikah who came to be sharing a body with Zelda before they were taken to the tournament, that's one explanation. Another is that TP!Zelda heard garbled accounts of her ancestor and decided to emulate it - but we know that facts can be obscured over the years. (Link to the Past is a PERFECT example - its prologue describes the Imprisoning War. That war is confirmed to be the events of OoT, but they do NOT match perfectly. The details have been lost to time.) It's possible that Sheik could have been a seperate person, or it was a duality deal, or something like that, and the story just got lost throught he passage of history. Uses the imagination to come up with a plausible backstory. It's fun :)

Okay, maybe it was hyperbole to say that it made NO sense. It doesn't make much sense to me, at least. (And I've seen one too many people argue that OoT!Sheik is female because "SHE HAS BEWBS IN BRAWL!!" (no joke, I've actually seen it written like that!) to consider the Brawl = OoT argument much, I must confess.) Based on my interpretation of the evidence, I see OoT!Sheik as, at the LEAST, having a physically male body. I just don't see how it's plausible for a non-magical transformation to change Zelda's shoulder-to-hip ratio, musculature, and colouring.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, so there's some magic technique involved in switching between Sheik and Zelda, I guess I will have to concede that. But why must it even be a complete altercation of her body rather than an overhaul of her makeup, hairstyle and clothing? Sailor Moon changes clothing magically but she doesn't slip into a new body when she does so. It seems to me that the act of changing your body completely would be more complicated than changing into a disguise. While it might be less risky to become a man, it might not even be an option available to her. And would I prefer to change my gender or just cross dress? Honestly, I'd rather just cross dress.

perhaps the arm bandages are there to keep from drawing attention to her bound chest. Impa wears no bandages whatsoever, so it's hard to say that bandages are a common sheikah fashion.

There's actually absolutely no difference whatsoever in Zelda and Sheik's vertical proportions in the pictures you linked. I overlaid them using her eyes as a reference and while Sheik's shoulders are broader, they are at exactly the same height relative to the eyes. The top of the heads matches up, the length of the arms match up, the height of the hips match up and the rough location of the feet match up (guessing where Zelda's feet are because she's wearing a dress. Sheik's shoulders are broader, Sheik's wider around the upper torso, and Sheik has thicker arms, but Shiek's hips and lower torso are roughly the same width as Zelda's and if Sheik were to close his/her legs, they could easily fit under the dress.

None of the other male characters have clothing that hug their body so tightly. If a guy were wearing cloths that were that form-fitting you'd see a bulge.

Skin color could easily be explained by makeup. That orange skin looks more like a bottle tan than any natural skin tone anyway. And were it a wig, it would stay on for the same reason the turban-hat-thing stays on it would be kind of hard for it to slip off while the turban-hat-thing remained in place. Also, Zelda is wearing fancier, less athletic clothing. you try jumping in a body suit and then try jumping in a dress and nice shoes and tell me the difference.

So we've established somewhere along the lines that the change from Zelda to Sheik (be it a change in costume or a change in body) is somehow executed magically because it's impossible to switch clothes that fast. Since she changes clothes quickly in both OoT and Brawl, we assume that in both games she is using a magic transformation technique. Is it far fetched to say that she is using the same technique in both games? Assuming that Brawl Zelda is using a transformation technique that Twilight Princess Zelda is capable of and that Twilight Princess Zelda exists in a world that is OoT's future, is it nonsensical to assume that it's a technique that Twilight Princess Zelda learned through the Royal Family, that was passed down for generations from her ancestor, OoT Zelda? The various different Links sure all seem to know the same spinny sword technique, and they don't even share an ancestor to pass that technique down through.

[ryttu3k.livejournal.com]

Sailor Moon also keeps the same hair colour, hair style, eye colour, skin colour, and build. And you might prefer to cross dress, but this doesn't appear to be the case. This is a series that has magical transformations as a matter of fact - not just to a different sex, but different SPECIES (ie. TP!Link transforming into a wolf). Why make things more complicated than necessary?

And yes, with only two Sheikah, it's hard to make judgement on what's usual for them. However, that doesn't preclude Sheik being a Sheikah. For instance, Link, Zelda, and Malon are all Hylians, but they don't wear precisely the same sorts of clothes. Impa and Sheik could easily hold different positions, different rankings, different roles...

The fact that Zelda and Sheik are the same height doesn't prove anything. Like you said, Sheik's shoulders are a lot wider - different body shapes. I'm the same height as one of my cousins, that doesn't make us the same person.

And nope, Ingo wears tights for his outfit when he's brainwashed by Ganondorf. No bulge. REALISTICALLY, yeah, they probably should be, but this game isn't rendered or illustrated with 100% realism. There are still constants within the art style, but it's not exactly photorealistic.

So you're saying that medieval Hyrule has contacts AND bottle tan? Hmm. Are you sure magic isn't an easier explanation? And if my life depended on it, hell. I'd kick off those shoes, pull up that skirt, and jump like... well, like my life depended on it.

And nah, not nonsensical. But I imagine that the motivation behind it would be entirely different. TP!Zelda wasn't hiding for her life. OoT!Zelda was. If I was going for the best possible disguise, I'd want it to be as complete as possible - if that meant being an entirely different race and sex, so be it. I don't really see what the point of this argument is? Yes, I agree that it's a magical transformation in both cases, but it's clearly not the SAME magical transformation. Different body, outfit, hair, stuff like that. Even the colouring is slightly different to OoT!Sheik's.

Even if it's the same technique, that doesn't mean it's transforming into the same body.

[(Anonymous)]

You say "Why make things more complicated than necessary?" so let's roll with that. To me, changing into an entirely different body seems more complicated than changing your body slightly for a disguise. I find "OMG, Zelda was wearing men's clothing" to be a less convoluted and more believable plot device than "OMG, Zelda turned into a man." Stylistic differences in the way they are drawn are to trick the gamer into believing the rouse, and Zelda's magical transformation sequence was because it was more dramatic and better timed than having her say "I am Zelda, hold on while I go into the other room to change" and more appropriate that "I'm Zelda, let me strip right here in front of you." To me occam's razor dictates that the artists didn't really think how Zelda changed her body so drastically, but instead thought that it would look more convincing if Zelda changed her body drastically, but really it was always supposed to be Zelda in her own body in a costume. I've merely been trying to apply internal logic to justify what I perceive as their decision, when really all along I doubt they thought through the internal logic. (of course, this is all conjecture on my part. I've never talked to the design team behind the game, I only guessed how their thought process went.) I've been trying to come up with explanations for why putting on different clothes makes her body seem more masculine, but I think it's one of those questions like "why doesn't Link sink in the water if he's carrying around the boots on his person?" Sure you can make up an explanation for it but really it just doesn't make sense. That's how I've always viewed the situation and I still think of it that way. If she were really in a completely different body, why did Sheik hide his/her face?

All I'm saying is Brawl Zelda undergoes a very similar transformation (broader sholders, thicker upper torso, muscular arms, different eye color, different hair color and style) while still retaining her gender. I think there's at least some logic behind the argument that it is the same technique, and it isn't an invalid argument to say that because Sheik is female in Brawl, there's a good chance that Sheik is female in OoT.

Whether or not the body was changed, I don't remember their being any evidence within the game that Sheik had a different mind or personality than Zelda, so I imagine Sheik always thought of her true form as being the female Zelda, whether or not she was in the body of a man. I don't think of the character as being two different people, whether or not she is in two different bodies.

[ryttu3k.livejournal.com]

We're not just talking about male clothing, though. If we go with your theory, we're going with male clothing, AND chest binding and padding/armour and somehow changing skin colour and eye colour and hair colour and hair style. If Sheik retained the same colouring and build, sure, it could just be Zelda in drag. But she and Sheik look too radically different to make it just a simple change of clothing.

And remember, this series DOES have magically changing bodies as a matter of fact. Twilight Princess has Link changing into a wolf and Midna changing into an imp. Majora's Mask has Kafei changing into a child and Link changing into a Deku, Zora, Goron, AND the Fierce Deity. It's pretty safe to say that Goron Link actually WAS a Goron, he just wasn't wearing a Goron suit!

And that's where things like imagination come in to play! Why does Sheik cover his face and wear bandages? Why do Kokiri wear green hats? I don't know. Make something up. (Also, you can actually see Sheik's face in parts - from certain angles in that first encounter at the Temple of Time. His face does NOT look like Zelda's. Different shape of the eyebrows and mouth. Granted, it's N64 graphics and there are some similarities, but ALL the characters share those particular similarities.)

And I'm not arguing that it's the same technique, I'm just saying the transformation is different. Just because the transformation is into a female body in Brawl doesn't mean the transformation is into a female body in OoT. Just because Link changes into a wolf in TP doesn't mean he changes into a wolf in Link to the Past (and that IS via the same mechanism).

And well, no, but there isn't anything to contradict that, either. I prefer thinking of Sheik as a separate person, you're entirely welcome to think of Sheik as Zelda in a male body. Like I said earlier, what canon we are given is very ambiguous.

Look, I don't think we're getting anywhere - I doubt I'm going to convince you and you're DEFINITELY not going to convince me. Do you think maybe we should leave it here? You can believe whatever you want to believe, and I'll continue interpreting the evidence to come up with male!Sheik.