[ SECRET POST #6868 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6868 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[Everybody Loves Large Chests]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 41 secrets from Secret Submission Post #981.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/e1f876b68fd8.png

Transcript by OP

[fscom]

I want more gender-non-conforming male characters that are canonically, unquestionably, cis and het.

Don't get me wrong, canonically trans/queer characters are cool and I would like more of those too! But they don't - and can't, by definition - fill the same niche presenting the idea that a cishet man can wear whatever he wants and have whatever interests he wants and it doesn't make him any less cis or any less het.

Female characters are allowed to be very cis and very het and very tomboy all the time, so they don't really lack this archetype... where are my cishet male characters that idk, like skirts because they're comfy and easy to wear, and it doesn't automatically mean A) they're into men or B) actually-not-cis-men-at-all?

Re: Transcript by OP

[(Anonymous)]

This is a dream for me, too. Like honest to god: We had to many men in the 80's and 90's who were clearly straight but gave everyone The Confusion because of their fashion choices.

Comfort in masculinity doesn't have to mean sweats, hole-run socks, or a suit and tie. God. Give me some men who don't give a single FIG about a frill, a skirt (or a dress, for that matter), heels or some apparent makeup. When did it become the norm for a straight guy to only want to wear A Specific Style and Uniform? Yikes. Boring.

And you know what? If any of that overlaps with the inherent masculinity norms of the time? Even better. Be secure. Be wild. Do what you want. It's the 20's--let's shake things up!

Re: Transcript by OP

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, society has gotten way worse about that

[(Anonymous)]

More media aimed at boys could use this, honestly. Without them being totally not gay except everyone and their mom knows they're gay, or literally wanting she/her pronouns and trans in everything but name, or jokes.

[(Anonymous)]

Hard agree. Show boys (and everyone else) that there are many ways to be a boy/man and that they don't have to be limited to a short list of pre-approved manly man behavior/appearance.

[feotakahari]

Unfortunately, these characters are called “traps.”

[(Anonymous)]

For one, most characters called "traps" don't fall under the criteria of "unquestionably cishet," most of the time even characters within their original canons question their gender and sexuality and the authors leave it debatable on purpose

For another, you hardly have to go all the way toward "can be mistaken for a woman" to be gender nonconforming. A 5'10" dude that likes wearing varsity jackets and skirts and painting his nails and makeup and flirts with women more successfully than the other dudes would be not be called a "trap" nor would he appeal to that section of fandom

[(Anonymous)]

I politely disagree. "Trap" (I hate this term, but I'll use it since it's an established trope) implies being feminine enough to pass as a girl, hence the transphobic or homophobic logic he is "tricking" people into sex by existing.

A GNC cishet guy would just be... a normal "masculine build" guy who wears makeup and dresses.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Also, usually the "trap" characters are leaning into the femininity and being mistaken for a girl on purpose.

What OP is talking about are male characters who enjoy a more feminine presentation but aren't trying to pretend they aren't male.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

"Why do you wear skirts?" Because, it turns out, they're the easiest lowerwear to put on and take off. Plus he doesn't even have to un/zip anything in the bathroom any more.

"Do you ever wear women's underwear? Hurrhurr" Haha he tried that but it turns out they're pretty uncomfortable, you need some extra room for the boys, y'know? He's going for max comfort here, bro.

"Why the makeup?" Because chicks dig a bit of well applied eyeliner, no joke.

"Why the nails?" Cause they're pretty and he can. He could do yours too if you want. Also just 'cause he's on the swim team doesn't mean he's not going to college for art.

"Why do you shave down all over?" Duh he just told you. Swim team. He probably wouldn't bother with it if he weren't so competitive but you gotta do what you gotta do. It also makes your dick look bigger. Just saying...

Give him an arc where he dates and romances with a female character, has to deal with an angry ex-gf, and has to gently reject his gender-conforming nobody-suspected gay best friend who'd hoped that gnc might mean bi and it didn't. They stay BFFs though. Later on cishet dude is best man at his friend's gay wedding and jokes about how he made him put on pants for this, but at least now everyone is wearing makeup for the cameras.

Make this exist :(

[(Anonymous)]

Back in the 90s when I used to frequent outdoor music festivals, there were a lot of guys who liked wearing sundresses. Into mosh pits. Like, they were the least likely to be trans or gay, they just really thought it was fun. Maybe one did it as a joke and then went, "wow, this is super comfy," and it caught on as a trend in the alternative community. More of that, please. Bring back skater bois in sundresses pls.

[(Anonymous)]

No, that's not true at all. A "trap" is a transphobic term used to mean a cis man or trans woman who passes for a cis woman and "traps" a cishet man into being attracted to him or her.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm with you, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

Where are you finding an excess of trans/otherwise queer gnc male characters? PLEASE tell me.

[(Anonymous)]

Animanga has plenty; see above re: "traps".

DA

[(Anonymous)]

"Traps" aren't really that though, see the discussion above. Those types of characters almost never confirm that they aren't cishet, in fact, many of them are deliberately vague about it to appeal to as wide a demographic as possible. The result is the exact same character being seen as a canon lesbian or bi trans girl by people who want queer rep and a canon straight femboy by people who are allergic to it.

A popular recent example is Mizuki from Project Sekai. Most of the English fandom I'm in takes it for granted that Mizuki is a trans girl who just won't say the words out loud, but other factions of EN as well as the Japanese fandom viewed the same event that confirmed Mizuki as AMAB as confirmation that Mizuki is a femboy.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I'd point out: "left deliberately vague" is not "trans/queer"" but it's also not "confirmed cis+het." Like you said, a character can be neither and there are plenty of those in animanga whom the creators leave purposely unconfirmed. Until Mizuki gets confirmed as cis+het by the creators, they don't count as what OP wants, either. "They didn't say they weren't cis/het" isn't the same as confirmed.

[(Anonymous)]

saaame. For the reasons you listened and because I hear of many non-gay guys talking about how they wish they were more comforted being fem and still getting with woman (They are mostly GNF Bi men, but I don't doubt there are het guys who feel the same, if r/GNFhet is any example.)

I'll admit, another for me but very petty is to also piss off people in fandom who sees a fictional man being slight GNC then calling any woman attracted to them idiots because they are clearly gay...

[(Anonymous)]

One character did come immediately to mind, though he was from 1990s TV, Wade Halsey (married to Alex) on Sisters. Alex thought he was cheating on her, but it turned out he was a crossdresser (and later was actually cheating on her). There were lots of questions about his sexuality when it was revealed (it was the 90s), but as far as I know, he was completely cishet.

On TVTropes, there's a trope called Wholesome Crossdresser, so apparently Shawn on Boy Meets World, Marc on Coronation Street, Max Klinger on MASH, and others.

[(Anonymous)]

Boy Meets World was pretty homophobic though. I mean, standard 1990s "haha gays are funny and weird" homophobia rather than anything hateful, but still not the best example of positive gender-nonconforming cishet male representation. And I don't recall Shawn crossdressing or being very GNC regularly, so they're most likely referring to one single episode where it was a plot.

I'm not familiar with any of those other shows so I can't speak on them.

[(Anonymous)]

I've heard enough of MASH from my parents to speak about Max, at least. The series is set in a military hospital tent during the Korean War, and Max is trying to get himself declared insane so they will send him home, thus spends all his time dressing in increasingly feminine dresses and skirts and stuff. It never works, but at the same time nobody makes fun of him for it, they just treat him the same as anyone else. Quite a wholesome example, actually.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess there is My Genderless Boyfriend by Tamekou. The guy dresses very feminin, wears make-up and has a girlfriend. But that's the only example I can think of.

[(Anonymous)]

Literally I can only think of Klinger. who I love, but like

[(Anonymous)]

Indie writer here. I have a character like that. Almost. He's cis and bi. Just likes wearing his short little skirt and baring his ass. Not what OP was asking for, but I've been having fun writing him.