[ SECRET POST #6999 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6999 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 08 secrets from Secret Submission Post #999.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

For real.

Maybe I'm boring, but I don't want to see a vagina in my m/m or penis in my f/f.

I didn't think that was weird, but apparently it is?

[(Anonymous)]

What annoys me most are the people who love that stuff (which, good for them, that's not the issue) who berate everyone who DOESN'T like it that they just HAVE to get over it and they're all just sexist and transphobic... as if cuntboy doujinshis are about trans people. And even if they were, a seperate category wouldn't hurt anyone.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

If someone is saying trans men don't belong in male(gender)/male(gender) then yeah, that's obviously transphobic. If someone is saying trans men don't belong in male(sex)/male(sex) though, then it's not. However, only saying "does or does not belong in m/m!!" doesn't specify which version they mean

IME the berating people are usually using "male(gender)/male(gender) - broadly gay" and others are using "male(sex)/male(sex) - cis gay" and nobody ever stops to clarify, just gets mad at each other.

[(Anonymous)]

But that's the thing- cuntboy doujinshi are 99% of the time NOT about trans men. It's just dudes with a cunt for kink reasons. Also, saying this shouldn't belong mixed into the general gay category without any distinction isn't transphobic in any case.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't make my point different though. Those people are saying cuntboys count in M(gender)/M(gender), and you're saying cuntboys do not count in M(sex)/M(sex) and the thing is you're both right! You're just using the term M/M in different ways.

And nobody will ever agree as long as people keep using the term M/M for both things.

[(Anonymous)]

Y'all have got to relearn sunbtext, context, nuance. Cuntboy porn is not technically, textually about trans men, and for some people it is simple fetish material and nothing else. But to deny that there is any significant overlap between the very idea of a boy with a vagina and the real existence of trans guys and that neither has any influence on the other is wilfull ignorance.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh, "subtext" dammit

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Pretty much, there's nuance to it. "I don't like cuntboy stuff" is not transphobic. It can certainly get transphobic if people are going "vaginas do not belong in any male/male story because it's supposed to be about men!"

I just imagine a bunch of actual men with vaginas IRL reading it going "well thanks for that"

[(Anonymous)]

man with vag here, nope, I'm with OP. I read m/m for dueling dicks, not vag. I don't like mine, can't get rid of it, sure don't want it in my porn.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, I don't know what you're disagreeing with. "I don't want vaginas in the m/m I read" isn't transphobic and I'm not trying to claim it is.

There are people out there literally being like "trans men shouldn't be in m/m because they're not real men" though.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I've never heard anyone say this. Where are you hearing it?

[(Anonymous)]

Someone in FS in another thread a month ago or so (?) was like 'vaginas have no place in m/m and should stay out' and I remember that because I was shocked to see that expressed here.

Tbh I have zero issues with people who personally don't want to see it in what they view, but that sort of sweeping generalization is y'know... more than a personal preference.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

and it was in reference to all types of characters with vaginas, including trans men, not just cuntboys that shouldn't be considered m/m.

Genuinely sorry I can't find it for you, I just spent some time looking but there's a lot of threads to search through. :( Maybe someone else remembers seeing that and can confirm.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. Just tag it so people can avoid or find it.

I'm sure some people are looking specifically for that, so why put surprise vaj or peen in a story?

[(Anonymous)]

>What annoys me most are the people who love that stuff [...] who berate everyone who DOESN'T like it that they just HAVE to get over it and they're all just sexist and transphobic

Yeah. It's why I don't really interact with F/F ships or yuri fandoms anymore. I've dealt with a lot of inner turmoil for not wanting penis in my IRL sex life, and I'm not really into it in fiction either. I just keep this to myself because I'm scared of what other fans will say to me about it. A lot of fen act like you aren't enlightened enough if you aren't "pansexual" when it comes to sex acts or kinks.

[(Anonymous)]

My experience with yuri fandoms is that they are the least accepting of "pansexuality." They WILL turn any pairing into yuri, and it's usually just by genderflipping whichever characters need it for it to be yuri. More recently there are fans making it headcanon that any male characters they want to ship are transfem "eggs," but it won't be a surprise when you find it in fic because they will make SURE in the summary that you know their version of the character is a lovely lady and not the gross man she thought she was. They are not accepting of anyone in their fandoms even liking any character that isn't female, let alone finding them attractive and shippable.

[(Anonymous)]

It's that "is it sex or gender?" thing happening again. M(sex)/M(sex) F(sex)/F(sex) is going to be different from M(gender)/M(gender) F(gender)/F(gender) and people are probably going to argue over it forever until some other term is made.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't understand why people can't use modifiers. You can have M/M, but for other cases you can use trans!M or even nb!M, and, I dunno, alt!M for stuff like cuntboys (bio males with vaginas, not trans).

[(Anonymous)]

Well in this secret's example, if there's a website "for M/M doujinshi" and it's never specified what the host mean by that, people who say "it's for M(gender)/M(gender) so cuntboys count" and people who say "it's for M(sex)/M(sex) so cuntboys don't count" both may or may not have valid points, you can't tell.

[(Anonymous)]

I know, but I'm replying to a discussion about all of this stuff being lumped under M/M. The thread strays from the secret, but even then I don't see how "we should add modifiers to terms like M/M" are off-topic from the secret when lumping in uncommon squicks like cuntboys are annoying readers.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't say anything was offtopic? I'm using the secret as an example of how M/M is being used, and why having that be substituted with alt!M or trans!M doesn't work if the site means M(gender)/M(gender) which it seems to, if cuntboy content is being posted. Cuntboy content being there alongside other things doesn't make it an alt!M site, it's still an M/M (gender) site. What I was trying to say is even if every cuntboy thing were tagged alt!M the issue with the ambiguous term "M/M" remains

[(Anonymous)]

Because if you don't WANT to see it, you're transphobic! You MUST be attracted to them otherwise you're a terf.