[ SECRET POST #1177 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1177 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.


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102.


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103.
(Army Wives)


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104.
[Being Human]


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105.
[Clerks]


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106.
[Patti Boyd/Beatles]


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107.
[Sasameki Koto]


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108.
[Rock & Rule]


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109.
[Power Rangers: Lightspeed Rescue]


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110.
[Eric Saade and Andreas Johnson]


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111.
(Empire Records/BSG)


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112.
(Blake's 7)


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113.
[FF13]


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114.
[Kristin Chenoweth]


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115.
[Jan Josef Liefers/Christoph Waltz]


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116.
[Yuu Yuu Hakusho]


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117.
[Kerli's Tea Party]


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118.
[The Lonely Island/Lady Gaga]


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119.
[Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic]


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120.


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121.
[treksixwords]


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122.
["Hamish & Andy"]


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123.
[Cowboy Bebop]


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124.
[Cable and Deadpool, Avengers, Young Avengers]


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125.
[Placebo]


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126.
[skins]


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127.
[Celtic Thunder]


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128.
[Alan Turing]


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129.
[skins]


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130.


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131.
[iCarly]


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132.
[Powerpuff Girls]


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133.
[Big Time Rush]


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134.
[30 Rock]


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135.
[Love Never Dies]


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136.
(Hanna Is Not a Boy's Name)


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137.
[vlogbrothers]


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138.
[Blake's 7]


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139.
[A Very Potter Musical]


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140.


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141.
[Ouran]


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142.
[Heavy Rain]


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143.
[Magic Knight Rayearth]


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144.
[Mata Hari]


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145.
[Moral Orel]


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146.
[Katawa Shoujo]


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147.


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148.
[Rebel Without a Cause/Sal Mineo and James Dean]


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149.
[Merlin/Bradley James]


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150.
[SAW]


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151.


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152.


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153.
[Archer]


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154.
(200 Cigarettes)


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155.
(Hanna Is Not a Boy's Name)


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156. [SPOILERS for Harry Potter]



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157. [SPOILERS for Dollhouse]



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158. [SPOILERS for Glee]



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159. [SPOILERS for Skins]



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160. [SPOILERS for Dr Who]



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161. [SPOILERS for Skins]



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162. [SPOILERS for Bioshock]




Notes:

April 1st Submissions Post is open!

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #168.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - ships it ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[putana.livejournal.com]

Oh lord, YES. I have only read the outline of the show, not even thinking of listening to the thing. But that was the part that really turned me off. I'm sure I've read a fanfic like that before. A really BAD fanfic.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna sound so troll-y saying this, but I am completely sincere: I thought Raoul's and Meg's characters were the best of LND (which maybe isn't saying much). I can see why people are so initially angry, but I've listened to the soundtrack a few times through, and I think he and Meg are the most interesting and empathy-invoking, myself.

[carey-pontmercy.livejournal.com]

I actually agree with you. I'm angry that they tried to make Raoul into an unsympathetic character, but ultimately found his character sympathetic. This was partly out of spite and partly because I just didn't believe that the Raoul of the original would naturally evolve into a drunk, shouty, son-neglecting gambling addict. The worst thing that he does in the original is initially not believe Christine when she says that there's an angel-ghost-phantom-thing after her (which is understandable, given that those are all mythical creatures and Christine's not real level-headed). He doesn't get drunk. He doesn't gamble. He loses his temper way less often and way more reasonably than the Phantom. He adores Christine. The change just isn't believable...unless something happened in between the original and LND to make him that way. Personally, I think that Christine drove him to it by lusting after the Phantom all those years.

As for Meg, I didn't believe that she would be so devoted to the Phantom, considering that she's practically the leader of the mob that goes after him, but I felt nothing but sorry for her. And I unironically love her Dark Reprise of "Bathing Beauty", too.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

Do you think they tried to make Raoul into an unsympathetic character? I'll admit he is a cheap ploy to cause discontent in Christine's life, but he isn't unsympathetic--certainly not in the second act.

I think the really interesting thing is that every phan against this show claims that Raoul's drunkenness and aggression is a cliche to make Christine choose the Phantom, but in LND, Christine doesn't choose the Phantom over Raoul, at least not knowingly. And, one could argue, she doesn't choose him at all. Think about it: she has no idea of the wager between the Phantom and Raoul, let alone the implications of her singing (her saying she needs to sing for him one last time does not a commitment make), she actively rejects the Phantom at the close of 'Beneath a Moonless Sky', and she seems genuinely upset when she finds Raoul's "Dear John" note after her performance.

I agree, Raoul's actions and the way he deals with his anger and grief are different than how his character handles them in the original. I feel that we are meant to understand/assume that these characters have changed drastically in the past ten years. I'm not saying it's a satisfying explanation, but when people freak out over how much these characters have changed, I just want to say, "well, yeah."

My personal interpretation of Raoul in the sequel is not unlike the Raoul at the end of Kay's novel; his anger and grief are the direct result of the ongoing realization that he cannot satisfy a very urgent and real desire in Christine (music), and that perhaps she does not love him in the manner that he desires. We are seeing the end results of Raoul's pain, but the source of that pain happens off stage. I think that is why Raoul is so sympathetically treated in the second act--we get glimpses of what must have happened once Christine returned from her night with the Phantom.

I didn't believe that she would be so devoted to the Phantom, considering that she's practically the leader of the mob that goes after him

You know, I've seen this argument a few times lately, but the really interesting thing to me is that I never interpreted "Track Down This Murderer" that way. I think in the whole of PotO Meg is curious, but her curiosity never morphs into the blind hatred and fear of the unknown. I think she goes down to the lair because she wants to witness more than contribute to the action. Perhaps she doesn't even know what her actions would be if she had stumbled upon the Phantom. Maybe she'd help. Who knows.

Personally, I've never really understood why Meg's role is written the way it is in the original. In a sense, she is the audience's link: she's interested in the action, a witness to the mysteries, and ultimately invested in its closure. But I'll admit when I first saw the play, I couldn't understand why she was privileged with the close of the act. Why does the young girl need to find the mask, the last link? Is she a stand-in for Christine? Or is she merely a device to showcase the Phantom's last feat of illusion and mystery?

But back on point, I love Meg's dark reprises. Seriously, I can only stand "By The Sea" because of how haunting and creepy that melody becomes when twisted into Meg's view of the world. I appreciate "Bathing Beauty" as base vaudeville, and love again how it's turned into a dark musing on Meg's mental state.

[carey-pontmercy.livejournal.com]

Well, I suppose that they didn't mean to make Raoul completely unsympathetic, given "Why Does She Love Me?" and his "Dear John" letter. However, they do put him in a generally bad light. My main problem is that there is not even a shadow of the flaws that he has in LND (the gambling addiction, the drinking, the hair-trigger temper, the coldness, the "Well, yeah? You're ugly!" attitude towards the Phantom) in the original. I'd only buy that he changed so drastically in the interval if I saw that change take place.

As for Meg, it's not really the mob thing that bothers me so much; I just said that for the sake of brevity. It's the psychology that gets me. For the entirety of the original, she only knows the Phantom as this mysterious figure who does nasty things, which would hardly inspire any sort of trust. How does she go from that to "please please please pay attention to me" in ten years? She's already in her mid-teens (I assume, anyway) by the end of the original, so these aren't even particularly formative years for her. Plus, he's not putting effort into winning her devotion like he did to Christine; in fact, he's ignoring her. To me, it makes more sense that she'd be desperate for her mother's approval, which might lead her to devote herself to the Phantom anyway. However, in LND, it's definitely his approval that she wants. I'm not saying that this couldn't be made believable, but "ten years later, everybody was really, really different and damned if I know why" isn't the way to go about it. It's just lazy.

[coconutty-tree.livejournal.com]

Not trying to flame anybody but personally I don't think there's anything good about LND!Raoul. In order to generate sympathy for Christine and make it believable that she would run to Erik, ALW felt it necessary to warp the vicomte into a drunken, gambling, abusive jerk. It's like he couldn't be bothered thinking of an in-character reason that Christine would leave him.

I would have been more forgiving of the sequel if the two had just grown apart like normal couples. The drinking/gambling away his funds and kid-hating seems like overkill to me. There was no reason to do that to a character who's meant to be kind, courageous and completely dedicated to Christine.

Meg... well, I can be more sympathetic there but I still don't feel too happy about her kidnapping and threatening to kill a child. >_>

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

I'm not into flames or wank, but I certainly invite discussion and dissenting opinions and views! :)

I agree that it's possible (likely) that ALW & Co just felt this was an easy, base way to generate sympathy for Christine, and make sequel!Phantom seem like a viable romantic option. But even if this true, I choose not to interpret Raoul in this manner. I'll admit I went into this show hopeful if not expectant, and I was most concerned about poor Meg and Raoul. Well, turns out, after a few close listens, that I find Christine pretty boring, the Phantom the most unlikeable, and Raoul and Meg both the most interesting and the ones I most easier and readily sympathize with.

I think it is believable that Raoul might alter and behave in this manner, after ten years of feeling inadequate and unloved. I don't think he was unloved by Christine, but I think he realized he couldn't fulfill a very real need in her, and he realized that the Phantom could, and was, if not threatened by the memory, than at least abhorrent to her indulging in singing.

I'm not saying I look at PotO and look at LND and think, "yes, this is the logical extension of that character." More it's like, "this is a plausible interpretation of this character, given how much their relationship as altered in this version."

Honestly, I don't mind (and even like) LND because it doesn't threaten my enjoyment or my interpretation of the original stage musical.

As for Meg, my interpretation of that pier scene is that she believes she is saving Gustave. We learn in the bar scene at the beginning of act two that Meg sees the water as cleansing, as forgiveness, as baptismal. If Gustave is an innocent to the seedy underbelly and corruption of Coney Island, and, to Meg's mind, a victim to the decisions of his parents, water is release into sweet oblivion. I think her mental state is too unstable towards the end to interpret that scene as the willful and spiteful intent to hurt a child.

[coconutty-tree.livejournal.com]

Christine is easily the most yawn-worthy character in LND. At least in PotO she had multiple dimensions (fear driving her to rip off his mask then eventual compassion/bravery allowing her to give him that kiss, a solitary touch of human kindness.) As for Phanty, had he survived he probably would have spent his remaining days pining for his Christine but nobody wants to pay money to see a guy in a mask mope. XD I don't really find either of them "unlikeable" but they're not exactly riveting characters either.

I agree that Raoul would be insecure due to his inability to provide the music facet to his relationship with Christine. That side of her will always remain locked from his understanding. I can imagine that insecurity would lead him to jealousy and, in an attempt at putting on a bold facade, drive him to make that bet in DTtH. I still find it unnecessary to make him alcoholic. It's that extremity that irritates me about his characterisation.

I also agree that Meg is completely off her rocker by the end of the stageshow. The problem in my mind however is this: Meg shouldn't be crazy in the first place. It's hard to believe Mme. Giry, who was always looking out for her students, would whore out her own daughter. I think Mme. Giry, like most mothers, would do everything in her power to save her child from such an ugly fate.

Now, if Meg wanted to do all that crap on her own that's another kettle of fish. I'm fine with her harbouring a growing attraction to the Phantom if he's cared for her since PotO (though I think it's more plausible that she'd resent him for dragging her across the globe...). A couple of lines about how her mother disapproves but knows she can't stop her wouldn't have gone amiss though!

I dunno what I'm trying to say here. I disagree with a sequel period because I think the original ends beautifully. If ALW had to go whip up a Phantom 2 though, I just feel like he could've handled it a lot better. There's really no explanation for why these characters are so different -- it's left completely up to the audience's imagination -- and I think that's part of LND's major downfall.