[ SECRET POST #130 ]

[grayout.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #130 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Posting for Liz! Not sure if notfandom 1 is some fandom or not, didn't think so...

Don't forget to vote in the poll!

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 58 secrets from Secret Submission Post #019.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, May 16th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[hughes]

3. AMEN. Seriously, I absolutely agree with everything you said there. It's so true: It's lazy writing that makes them uninteresting, as well as the unoriginality and reptitiveness of their characterization in EVERY SERIES EVER, and the fact that them solely being FEMALE automatically makes them compatible with MAINCHARACTERLUV.

AND YES. THE BOSS IS A MAJOR EXCEPTION. SO MUCH LOVE TO BOTH HER AND THE WRITERS FOR MAKING HER AMAZING. <33333

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Why does everyone attack the female characters for being stereotypes right away? Male characters can be just as bad: Hapless heroes, suave perverts, knights in shining armor, angsty boys, cackling villains, etc, etc. If you find the male characters more interesting, more power to you, but just cause it has a penis doesn't mean the writers will always do better in fleshing it out.

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

Because the "everyone" you speak of has a strong tendency to be female and thus instantly identify horribly female stereotypes and character archetypes much more quickly than their just as prevalent male counterparts. There are a hell of a lot more male characters in all media anyway, lending for a higher probability of them being GOOD, which really just compounds the problem.

IM-Sociological-O.

Not to say I disagree with your general point =\ (thought I do disagree with the OP's resenting actual women, which is just horseshit.)

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

True. I think the whole 'women were oppressed for so long' crap has been ingrained into the skulls of a lot of women today, so they're paranoid and therefore critical.

...well, maybe. I'm probably wrong as fuck here, I'm a writer, not a psychologist. XD

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

*horrible :(

[hughes]

Sorry, rant coming on. T_T;

I don't think male characters are more interesting, and if you don't think that a character having a penis usually makes them better fleshed-out in scriptwriting, your view of the world is a lot less cynical than mine is. As such, I'm not attacking the female characters, but the writers who make them uninteresting.

As far as male stereotypes, I find the main characters in most yaoi mangas just as uninteresting as the females I'm talking about, where everything that happens end up being incredibly predictable because of that same repetition of stereotypes. (Wild boy meets stoic emo man, emo boy meets friendly man. Nothing new.) Also, consider the stereotypes you just gave about male characters: Hapless heroes, suave perverts, knights in shining armor, angsty boys, cackling villains, etc, etc. Note how you listed so many types of characters there to the point of having to use "etc," and yet, leading females seem to always fall into the ONE stereotype of falling in love with the main character not because of good relationship development but because they're females. (As I write this, I realize that's the stereotype that pisses me off above all else, so I'll focus on it, since the prevalence of other female stereotypes is way more debatable.)

That's one thing that pisses me off about most fandoms more than anything and which I feel is demeaning to women in general: That someone in a show, movie, etc, being female and pretty automatically seems to make them the default for being romantically involved with the main character without any kind of realistic development. So why do I then get into yaoi pairings rather than yuri pairings? Because the writers have created a character whose lack of realism has also made them harder to empathize with, at least for me. Someone in a comment below said that (in regards to Cameron) it's hypocritical of fans to hate on female leads who love main characters when they themselves love the main characters. I agree with this to a point: Some fans really are just stupidly jealous and hate on the girl for that, but as it's usually not the main character who I end up loving in fandoms, I don't so much hate the lead females as find them unbelievable due to lacking good relationship/character development. For example, in MGS1, (in which the problem is pretty extreme), I just can't empathize with Meryl, because... seriously, who falls in love with a dude in real life in three hours unless you've got some serious issues? (And don't get me wrong, Snake is really dumb about it too, especially considering he's supposed to be a hardened mercenary, but at least he has the rest of MGS1 and much of MGS2 to flesh him out about everything else.)

Anyway, I could go on, but this is long enough as is. T_T; In the end, we can agree to disagree, but let me make it clear that I'm not women I'm hating on, but the men (or sometimes even women!) who create interesting fandoms with disproportionately uninteresting women. I'd also like to add that on second-read-through of the secret, I disagree that these fictional characters make me think less of myself as a woman or women in general. It makes me think less of writers, really. :/

TL;DR OH JESUS T_T

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

females seem to always fall into the ONE stereotype of falling in love with the main character not because of good relationship development but because they're females.

Eh, I guess there's a point somewhere...in the Sorcerer Hunters manga Carrot and Tira got thrown together because "main guy + main girl = DESTINED!!! I don't even have to properly build up the relationship!" and that was pretty lame. But that's not always how it happens, in Sailormoon Rei and Usagi were the only once who fancied Mamoru, for example.

Yeah, definitely agree to disagree.

[hughes]

Yeah, as I wrote out that long rant, I sort of realized THAT'S what pisses me off, because even supposedly Mary-Sue-ish characters can be made interesting with good writing. (Tohru anyone? <3) I don't know Sailor Moon, so I wouldn't know, sorry. XD;;

True, doesn't happen all the time, but it seems to happen more often than not, and maybe that's why I don't get into main male characters very often, like I mentioned before. (Like in Fushigi Yuugi, people always rag on Miaka, but like... it's Tamahome who I find at fault. Miaka's an impressionable schoolgirl thrown into ancient China: of course she'll fall for the dashing thief, but the dashing thief going against the majority of his disillusioned characterization to love the girl so suddenly? Yeah, not very believable. :/)

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

In his defense, Miaka fell for him faster than he fell for her. (I liked the scene in volume 1 where he was offering to be her big brother. :D)

[hughes]

True. >_>; Haven't read it in a while.

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

I would like to point out that Sailor Moon's main character is female. Mamoru is a side character. Thus it really isn't comparable, not that any one single example is ever valid.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Ah, looks like a wire got a little crossed.

Well, then...Takako from Chobits didn't fall in love with Hideki, so there. XD

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

That works 8D