fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1379 ]

[ SECRET POST #1379 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1379 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

__________________________________________________

102.

__________________________________________________

103.

__________________________________________________

104.

__________________________________________________

105.

__________________________________________________

106.

__________________________________________________

107.

__________________________________________________

108.

__________________________________________________

109.

__________________________________________________

110.

__________________________________________________

111.

__________________________________________________

112.

__________________________________________________

113.

__________________________________________________

114.

__________________________________________________

115.

__________________________________________________

116.

__________________________________________________

117.

__________________________________________________

118. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

119.

__________________________________________________

120.

__________________________________________________

121.

__________________________________________________

122.

__________________________________________________

123.

__________________________________________________

124.

__________________________________________________

125.

__________________________________________________

126.

__________________________________________________

127.

__________________________________________________

128.

__________________________________________________

129. [repeat]

__________________________________________________

130.

__________________________________________________

131.

__________________________________________________

132.

__________________________________________________

133.

__________________________________________________

134.

__________________________________________________

135.

__________________________________________________

136.

__________________________________________________

137.

__________________________________________________

138.

__________________________________________________

139.

__________________________________________________

140.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 081 secrets from Secret Submission Post #197.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

119. http://i53.tinypic.com/301obb8.png

No, no, I get you. Homoerotic villains are hot (see: Tim Curry in damn near everything). It's just that we need more non-villainous gay people as well as more villainous people.

/brofist

Perfectly well-adjusted homosexual protagonists aren't nearly as fun as the sadistic and/or psychotic gay villains.

Eh, it's not like those are the only two options.

Oh, I know- I just meant for 'perfectly well-adjusted' to be on the other end of the scale from 'sadistic and/or psychotic'.

It'd be a matrix rather than a spectrum, surely? 'nice' in one corner, 'sadistic' in one corner, 'sane' in one corner, 'psychotic' in one corner, with a sign on the lawn telling people to stop clustering in the upper-right corner.

What I like about the depraved homosexual trope is that those characters are allowed to be openly gay and display sexual urges and / or have relationships, even if they're the twisted kind.

The sane, nice, friendly, gentle gay guy over there in the corner will probably never get an onscreen kiss or anything to show that he has a sex drive at all.

I completely agree, especially about harmless, friendly queer characters. (Also there's the whole argument about how the way they're now showing gay characters in what's effectively a "normal" heteronormative light is ultimately harmful.)

Plus, seeing a villain coming on to a person of the opposite sex who they're torturing/taunting/tying up/whatever has gathered its fair share of sexism throughout history (especially if the villain is male and the "victim" female, princess-in-the-clutches-of-evil-baron, anyone?)... ok, maybe that's just male-villain female-victim. I can't think of an example of a female-villain with a male-victim.

ANYWAY. Gay stereotypes and sexist tropes are both ugly and best avoided, but if I absolutely had to choose, I'd go with campy villains.

Wait, there's an argument that showing gay people as normal is harmful?

(no subject)

caterfree10.livejournal.com - 2010-10-14 02:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

demiincarnate.livejournal.com - 2010-10-14 02:47 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

asimaiyat.livejournal.com - 2010-10-14 07:18 (UTC) - Expand

OP

(Anonymous) - 2010-10-14 19:01 (UTC) - Expand

I can't think of an example of a female-villain with a male-victim.

Maleficent/Prince Philip in Sleeping Beauty?

I...can see were you're coming from? I'd definitely love to see more non-villainous gay/bi characters, no doubt, but I'd be lying if I'd say that I didn't find the Depraved Homo/Bisexual trope kinda hot.

The Psycho Lesbian trope is my personal favorite, but yeah, I totally understand.

I don't think that there's a problem with that type of character per se; it's that there are so few other types of characters that are gay/bi in media. It's the lack of variety that's the problem (much like with female characters).

I see where you're coming from.

Although, like female characters, I'd take it on a case-by-case basis. If it's like something out of a Chick Tract, that's wrong. If the villain in question is a nuanced character with flaws and strengths as well as being queer- that's what I like.

But then again, I'm a villain person to the core, and I like my heterosexual relationships depraved and messed-up as well.

Yes, even though I have no idea what a Chick Tract is, I see what you mean. I rarely think there are problems with specific female characters in media/fiction - it's that often it feels like it's the same female character in almost every work. Also, there are way too few female characters in media (though that's another thing - in certain works there are reasons for it, it all depends on the story).

Doing analyses on the trends in portraying female characters or queer people doesn't work if you only look at one particular work of fiction - it's about looking at how it works in a medium in general. A work can be part of a trend, but by itself not a problem.

Re: OP

demiincarnate.livejournal.com - 2010-10-14 02:05 (UTC) - Expand

You can't help what you find attractive, OP. And you acknowledge the problems with the stereotype, so I don't think you should feel bad for liking it.

I'm totally with you. That's my preference too. It combines the moral freedom of being a villian with all my favorite kinks. It makes for great drama and hot stories. Fiction=/= reality, yadda, yadda, yadda.

a) the lack of non-depraved queers is the real problem.
b) the idea that uninhibited queerness is an aspect of the depravity is a problem. 'Queer' does not belong on a list of someone's bad qualities.

(BB icon because post-drama CD he's now canonically a bisexual sadomasochist and he's still kinda mostly the good guy, ish.

Oh, agreed with you there.

But what if being queer is Petting The Dog? You know, like the villain has a boyfriend he cares about dearly and he'll kick your ass if you mess with him.

XD Volgin does exactly that in MGS3. It's cute.

They're really fun characters, but I'd like more LGBT characters, and with them more variety (as heroes and villains and everyone in between). That way everyone gets what they're looking for.

I think it's only a negative stereotype if they're depraved *because* they're gay. If people assume it right out without there being anything to connect two random character traits, it's their problem, not the writer's.

Agreed 100%.

If it's some kind of fundie author tract about how gay people are inherently messed up- not cool. If they're a well-rounded villain with cool powers and a believable motivation/backstory and they happen to be gay- that's the type I like.

Sadly, people conflate the latter with the former and think that ANY portrayal of a villain as gay (or of a gay person as a villain) is automatically bad.

Exactly. Not to mention when people read into things that just aren't there.

Gyah, I know. I think the issue comes down to lack of variety, but truth be told there aren't anything wrong with the individual characters, for the most part.

Dinnae fash yerself, gay male anon; straight male anon understands just where you're coming from (aside of course from the extra complications coming from LGBT people being a still-widely-misunderstood minority, of course.) But when I see a selfish, ruthless, lusty and perverse mofo who just freakin' does what he wants, not giving the faintest damn for any morality, any social norms, any sense of decency or mercy, Good God do I get off to it. I don't want to be him; I don't want to do the things he does (not really, anyways) but hoo boy do I ever want to feel like him.

Really, I suspect that in truth, you're not into the Depraved Homosexual trope. You're into the Depraved Villain trope, and you just like what the homosexual variety of the DV does with their depraved freedom better than what the heterosexual DVs get up to. If there's something about the typical depiction of Depraved Homosexuals that appeals to you, it could easily just be association; i.e. the sleazy falsetto and decadent giggling turns you on because you know they're used to indicate a character of the kind who turns you on.

So I wouldn't worry about it.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only