[ SECRET POST #1482 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1482 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Sorry, fixed the date on the subs post. It should have read "first secret post will be January 29th," not the 22nd.

Secrets Left to Post: 14 pages, 332 secrets from Secret Submission Post #212.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dethtoll.livejournal.com]

I think it's a little from column A, a little from column B. The Baldur's Gate games are particularly terribad in part because of the engine the games run on. Mass Effect is at least halfway breaking out of the old formula they've been using since the 90s.

When it comes to cRPGs I'm very much a Fallout sort of man.

[(Anonymous)]

Planescape: Torment is the last word in CRPGs for me. That includes the clunky combat and interface, which grew on me. Fallout 2 a close second. Antiquated engines and all -- hell, if an Infinity or Fallout Engine game came out today and was comparable in story to those ones, I'd snap that shit up in a minute. Perhaps I'm a masochist.

Bioware came close to those with Avellone's story for KOTOR2 in all its deconstructionist, meta, fanboy-angering glory -- I will maintain that Kreia is one of the most interesting characters in any CRPG, anywhere -- but it's too bad KOTOR2 is a wretched experience as an actual game...

[(Anonymous)]

(anon that was commenting itt before) Gotta agree here, I really did like PS:T. I already know dethtoll hates it though, so no point trying to argue its merits with him again ;) Fallout though, whether it be the classics or New Vegas (FO3 does not exist), does absolutely nothing for me despite my love of post-apoc settings. I find it hard to express why, but man, the settings, the dialogue, the gameplay... it all just bores me to tears. I will acknowledge that they're still some of the best CRPGs, but I don't think I'll ever LIKE them.

ITT: CLASSIC GAMES CHAT

[(Anonymous)]

Well I don't dig Supernatural or MSPA so this is the only chance I get to say anything on Fandom Secrets, haha. CRPGs are the best.

Dethtoll is entitled to his opinion on PS:T but no hard words can change the amount of fun I had exploring the game back in the day, or the fond memories of the story that remain. It won't be dethroned in my mind anytime soon.

Deus Ex is awesome though. It is still the best example of an action RPG ever. Bethesda and all the others still live in its shadow. I wish to god they'd catch up, but nope...

[dethtoll.livejournal.com]

Deus Ex is the best game ever made. It's $10 on Steam. There is no reason not to purchase it and that includes already owning it.

[(Anonymous)]

This is true. We may not agree on PS:T but we do agree on this! But then, I am a sucker for cyberpunk. Everyone must play Deus Ex and love it.

[dethtoll.livejournal.com]

I love how you have enough of an opinion on Fallout 3 to declare its nonexistence when you don't even really like the franchise as a whole.

I'm one of those crazy people who loved FO3 almost as much as FO1, though New Vegas is quickly becoming king.

If Fallout 3 is what Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl wanted to be, and Stalker: Call of Pripyat is what Shadow of Chernobyl should have been, then Fallout New Vegas is what Fallout 3 should have been. Confused yet? I am too, and it's glorious.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah you're right, I somehow managed to sound like an NMA member while also saying I didn't like Fallout, I don't know wtf I was doing. I think my current aggravation with Bethesda over Skyrim was clouding my vision - if I actually think back on FO3 I didn't find it to be that bad, though I think it was more in the spirit of Beth's previous games rather than the spirit of the other Fallouts.

[dethtoll.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm coming to realize that now with New Vegas. Fallout 3 is probably more accurately classified as Oblivion with Guns Fun Guns. Excellent game in its own right, but definitely closer to TES than Fallout.

[dethtoll.livejournal.com]

Planescape: Torment's sole redeeming factor is they got the name right. The writing is a load of pretentious overwrought wash too absorbed in its own breathless obsession with detail to realize that dumping 900 pages worth of text in the player's lap in the hope they'll think density = depth is not effective writing. Teach me about your world through the story and the characters, not through endless dialogue trees. Chris Avellone's strength is not in fantasy settings, I hope he's realized that by now.

Outside of the shitty writing you have shitty gameplay mechanics that defenders love to simultaneously insist is both not the point of the game and integral to it (why should I have to fucking die over and over just to be able to eventually defend myself against low-level punks in an alley?)

The whole thing is so drenched in its CREEPYCOOLDARK ridiculous fantasy freakshow setting that it's hard to take the game as seriously as it takes itself.

As to Fallout 2... I don't know. I found the writing to be a bit messy in that game, and its sheer size introduces new problems that Fallout 1 didn't have. FO2 brings very little that's actually new to the table, and most of what is new isn't that great. (New Reno redeems a lot of the game's mistakes, though.) I like Fallout 2 (took me a while, but I got there) but Fallout 1 is superior in almost every way. It's a smaller, shorter game, yeah, but that means the writing is tighter and the gameplay doesn't meander as much. I found the combat difficulty progression to be a little more balanced, as well.

I haven't played KOTOR2 (and Bioware didn't make it just btw, Obsidian did) because I'm deathly allergic to Star Wars.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I won't try to change your opinion, but it's clear that I did have a vastly different experience of PS:T than you did. I was engaged enough in the world and characters not to mind the endless dialogue trees, which I found plenty illuminating. If you didn't find the story to be deep or compelling, that's fair, but I certainly did. I have the same problem with Japanese RPGs -- they can bring certain people to tears with emotions while I just shake my head and daydream about punching the terrible voice actors in the nuts.

Some defenders might talk about the mechanics, but eh. I hate the AD&D system in the first place so the 'hit bad man until bad man fall over, shoot fire if many bad man' combat didn't bother me compared to what it could've been. Combat in RPGs is always the least of the draw for me.

I could nitpick the presentation or the visual style, yes (lol edgy '90s) but I wouldn't find it rewarding to do so when there are so many worse games out there -- that is to say nearly all of them. PS:T for me is a real oddity, a gem in a mountain of coal.

Fallout 2 is just plain fun (I should mention that Fallout 1 is nearly tied for me -- indeed I think they're inextricable from each other in most important ways). I could've done without the constant pop-culture riffs that developers think is hilarious at four in the morning after their ninth Red Bull of the day, but what you found messy in the writing I found fairly credible in creating a rough, sprawling, multi-faceted world to play around in. Chewing people up with stupidly overpowered weapons certainly helps -- as does New Reno.

Yes, corrected on Obsidian, thank you. KOTOR1 was Bioware -- I rather liked that one, too...

[(Anonymous)]

Your opinion. Baldur's gate games are the ones I enjoy the most, because I love the engine and the style.

You have just different taste than the type of players they aim to please (or used to, with Mass Effect it seems they try to go too near mainstream stuff and that's boring for me).

[dethtoll.livejournal.com]

I don't even know what this comment's trying to say. My tastes aren't THAT different. So I don't like Bioware games and I think Planescape Torment is one of the most criminally-overrated games ever made, that doesn't make me a fucking alien in classic PC gaming circles.