[ SECRET POST #1538 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1538 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 11 pages, 265 secrets from Secret Submission Post #220.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ], [ 1 - ships it ], [ 1 - unreadable ], [ 1 2 3 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[vitani]

Well, I completely disagree with this and with most of the comments. She isn't 'mean to him for no reason', she doesn't mock him like the others, she criticizes him in areas where she not only thinks he should improve, but can improve. Astrid has no problem with Hiccup until he starts seeming like he doesn't care about dragon training, then she gets frustrated because he used to care, he used to try, and he's not trying anymore. (And it's very important to her, because she's worked hard to be good at it for so long.) Notice how Astrid never criticizes the others, even though they do just as badly as Hiccup -- she doesn't expect anything more from them. She does think more of him, however, and thinks he can do better.

I've actually been tempted to write an essay about these two because I really do think they work well together, and I think that more every time I watch the movie, because I pick up more on how Astrid is very aware of Hiccup from the first part of the movie on, and how she treats him differently than everyone else. She's also the one who doesn't let him stay down and depressed and prompts him to go on and do what she knows he can do. Astrid is the first person to really believe in Hiccup, and she's so obviously proud of him in the scenes where he's showing the others how to work with the dragons. I think that does a lot for him and will also help him in the future when her support will be very helpful for him as he grows as a Viking -- because let's face it, he has their respect now, but he still doesn't exactly think like them.

That said, I do think they were underdeveloped in the movie and that a lot of that was cut out for time -- there's a deleted scene I'm very fond of that includes her finding his workshop and being interested in his designs. So I think they intended to develop it more and then cut it for time. Still, I strongly disagree with the "hot strong chick gets with geeky guy" or "she just likes him because he impressed her with a dragon", because I don't actually think that was it at all. Did it help? Hell yes it helped. But she was paying attention to him before that.

And frankly, if someone you knew to have cared strongly about becoming a strong Viking suddenly a) stopped seeming to care about it and b) suddenly inexplicably became better than you, even though it's what you've worked your whole life for, and c) would not talk to you about it, I'd be pretty pissed too.

tldr; I love Astrid, she's my favorite character, and I love the two of them together.

[0o0f.livejournal.com]

because I pick up more on how Astrid is very aware of Hiccup from the first part of the movie on,

Yeah, I still haven't warmed up to them together, but I did start to notice that after watching the movie over and over. It's kinda nice and subtle.

[vitani]

Yeah. I can understand why it takes people aback at first, because I know that the first time I saw the movie I didn't pick up on it at all, but it's definitely there if you're looking for it.

[sakikotetsu.livejournal.com]

I don't see where you're getting anything from your first paragraph here. There was never anything in the movie to show that she expected more out of Hiccup than the others, nothing to show that she was frustrated at him for succeeding in dragon training because he.. wasn't trying? I love this movie, I've seen it a ton of times, and I've never gotten that vibe at all. Honestly, I wish all that you said was in there, because maybe, like OP, I would've liked them as a pairing. But as it stands, I saw nothing but a thrown-in, lazily written female character for the lead to have a crush on.

As far as better development being thrown out for time, my opinion still stands that they should've just left the romance out entirely instead of putting it in so badly. This story didn't need a romantic subplot at all. Its heart was elsewhere and that's its biggest catch and what made it so good. To me, the awkward teen romance was a scar on an otherwise perfect film :/

[vitani]

I said all that because it's what I see from paying attention to Astrid in multiple viewings -- she's my favorite character, so I pay the most attention to her. She only ever criticizes Hiccup in dragon training, never the others. Why not? They're failing as badly as he is. He's the only one whose failures she cares about, and I would presume because she thinks he is able to not fail. She also takes note of him and is curious about his whereabouts before he starts being successful with dragons. When he goes off by himself after the scene where Gobber tells them that a downed dragon is a dead dragon, she follows almost into the dark and looks very thoughtful and conflicted, clearly interested in what he's thinking, even though he hadn't given her a reason to be yet. Even in the very first scene, when he's scolded by Stoick, the others mock him and she just looks unhappy and somewhat sad. Am I reading into her actions? Yes, but the actions are there.

And I just disagree with your second paragraph, so. Astrid, and her part in the film, are a large part of the reason it's my favorite movie. So I don't think we're going to find a consensus on that level.

[sakikotetsu.livejournal.com]

She picks on him the most for one, simple, so not as deep as you think reason. He's the main character, and she's the one who he's crushing on. The writers needed conflict in that aspect, to make it more "interesting". It's called a plot device. There's no underlying sense of her secretly cheering him on, it's just her being a bitch to him because he's the lead character. Her not picking on anyone else was just the writers being lazy, as they are with everything else about her character. You could also say that she picks on him the most because he's seen as the biggest failure out of all of them, and he's an easy target. It's the same issue with why everyone sees him as a little twig, while Astrid and the twins are just as skinny as he is. It doesn't make sense, but he's picked on the most for conflict's sake. And she doesn't follow him around later because she's curious. She tries to find out where he's been going because she's so mad at him for stealing her spotlight, probably knows he's cheating somehow, and wants to take it away from him. As for the 'a downed dragon is a dead dragon' scene, I felt nothing more from her almost-intentions of following him as being nosy. He's the screw-up in the village, has been known to go off on his own and create unintentional havoc. She was probably just like, "Oh christ, where's he going now."

Honestly, the movie just never puts her in a good light for me. She's constantly scowling, yelling, being mean, etc. You say she looks sad while everyone else is picking on Hiccup in the beginning, I say she looks pissed off. Again, I wish they had put little moments of her in the background maybe looking like she wanted to help him but was hesitant, maybe her being a tiny bit nice to him here and there, but there's none of that until the magical character developing dragon ride. It's possible to write a strong, kickass, independent female character without her being a total bitch, but Dreamworks failed at that here. It's honestly sad to me because I shipped them from the trailers, but there was just nothing in the actual movie.

[vitani]

I feel like we've watched entirely different movies, because I don't think Astrid is a "total bitch" at all and I don't agree with anything you've said here. I also think that you're making a lot of assumptions, certainly as much as I am, but all in a negative light. There are a lot of reasons why Astrid delights me as a character and why I'm happy to see Dreamworks create a female character like her, allowed one to behave like her, but considering you see none of that, I don't know that there's much point in continuing this conversation. Sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreeing with llamerie here. She doesn't "pick" on Hiccup at all. When the other kids are teasing and mocking him, she stays completely quiet and looks annoyed. You can interpret it in your own way, but I think she disapproves of that behavior. She doesn't start yelling at him until he's goofing off in training (and, honestly, why the hell couldn't he have talked to Gobber before or after class??) and almost gets them killed. You're telling me that wouldn't piss you off?

After that as he starts getting "better" she does get jealous (understandable, unless you think she needs to be a saint) and suspicious, since he was such a failure first. Once the "magic dragon ride" showed her the truth, then the reasons for the suspicion and jealousy vanish, why is this such a surprise? More importantly, wouldn't you accuse her of being closed-minded if it didn't?

As to She's constantly scowling, yelling, being mean, etc - that's just blatantly false. She's not Miss hyper, giggles all the time but SO WHAT? Girls can be serious, and frankly Astrid has the weight of protecting her entire frickin' village on her shoulders; just because she's not joking around like the others does not take away her worth as a girl or a character.

[sakikotetsu.livejournal.com]

The scene where she goes off on Hiccup during dragon training was probably the turning point of my opinion of her. Yeah, it was stupid of him to try and talk to Gobber during all that, but she was the one who fell on him. He was just standing there, and she just freaks out on him because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And once again, to make things more COMPLICATED between them. Plus, she questioned his loyalty to the village over that. She wouldn't have said all that to him if she hadn't been thinking that of him long before that.

As for me needing her to be a saint, I don't. But there was just nothing before her garbage character development that put her in a positive light. Yes, her beig jealous of Hiccup when he succeeded in dragon training was justified, but at that point, it was just too much. There had been nothing to balance out her bad attitude, and it was just scene after scene of her being unpleasant. And sorry, but anyone who knows what good pacing and believavable development is in a story knows that hers was complete shit. There's just no justifying that. She was about to out him to the entire village that he'd been keeping a dragon - their greatest taboo, mind you, so she knew something really bad would've happened to him (lol another reason she TOTALLY secretly cared about him, rite?) - yet h he gives her a ride and all of a sudden she's all up on him. Which is another thing I can't stand about her. She felt absolutely no guilt in how sue treated him for god knows how long before the movie even started, and was totally cool with cuddling him and kissing him on the cheek. That irks the hell out of me.

Wow, you really like just coming up with random stuff. I never said I wanted her to be a cutesy, funny, girly girl. I just said that there are ways to have all the traits of a strong female character and them still be likeable, but Astrid just isn't at all. There's a vast difference between being strong and being unnecessarily mean.

[oberongeiger.livejournal.com]

Completely WORD.

[mekosuchinae.livejournal.com]

I agree 100% with all of this. And w/e, I love that Astrid is mean and cranky and rude--all characteristics praised in men and so rarely seen in women in fiction.

[vitani]

That's what gets me the most. Were she a male character, everyone would love him and ship him with Hiccup. As noted above, she wouldn't be canonically put with Hiccup if she were a guy, but you can sure as hell bet fandom would suddenly love it all that much more.

[mekosuchinae.livejournal.com]

Seriously! And, like, if she were a male character, people would be ALL OVER Astrid's anger re: Hiccup suddenly surpassing her in combat training. But because she's a female character, she's expected to be sweet, to not take pride in her work or her goals, to relinquish her title without complaint, to essentially not care when someone who has never before demonstrated any especial talent in whatever field suddenly surpasses her.