[ SECRET POST #1544 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1544 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 286 secrets from Secret Submission Post #221.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - omfg use .png ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

He's England. I feel your geography rage anon (which adds to history rage because, hello, no United Kingdom until the 18th century and Britain is not a nation or a political entity)

[kuromitsu.livejournal.com]

Actually, no. Himaruya said that he's England representing the UK which, regardless of how people feel about this issue, is in this case synonymous with Britain which is why he's called that in the English dub. So he's both England and the UK, presumably at any stage of its development. There's a reason why he's drawn with the Union flag 99% of the time.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

So, he's England. He represents the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not a nation but an union of them. So, for historical reasons England is the one that speaks for it but he's still England and was so long before the UK was created, as shown in canon. Britain, is a geographical term that (like the UK) includes several nations but it's not the same that the United Kingdom, as Scotland, for example, was always part of Great Britain but only part of the United Kingdom for a few centuries.

But regardless of this, you said it yourself: "Himaruya said that he's England representing the UK"

[kuromitsu.livejournal.com]

I also said: "he's both England and the UK." The UK may not be a nation but it's a state/political entity/whathaveyou, and the character is that. (What Himaruya said was this: "'Igirisu' is the UK. He's only England when his brothers, Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales appear." It's just a pain to translate given that he's called England on this side of the fandom.)

As for Britain, I'm not going into that, but last time I checked in at least one usage 'Britain' was synonymous with the UK. Maybe that's not the only usage or even the most common one, but it obviously exists.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

But how can he be the United Kingdom and yet have the rest of the kingdoms as brothers? How can they exist if England is the UK? Russia wasn't the Soviet Union just like England is not the United Kingdom: they represent the greater political entity but can not be them. And canon shows us England being England way before the United Kingdom were even an idea, so there's that.

Regarding Britain: I have never seen anyone using it as a synonym for either England or the United Kingdom but my social circle is mostly people like myself, who study this for a living and are usually picky about names.

I have the impression that neither of us will be convinced, though.

[kuromitsu.livejournal.com]

What all the kind anons said. (This is what happens when you live on the other side of the globe...)

As for Britain, I can only offer these (http://digitaldiplomacy.fco.gov.uk/en/guidance/content/editorial/style/uk-britain) links (http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/b) (do a search for 'Britain'). I could post other links, plus I could always dig out my MHRA style guide but IIRC that said something along the same lines. Again: it may not be the most common usage, but that's how I always see it used in papers, TV (until a while ago my job involved watching the BBC), etc. Not being British, I may have misunderstood something but the above links seem to be clear enough for me.

[(Anonymous)]

look, dud, I don't actually give a fuck. Just rewrite your epic Giles mpreg an then we'll talk, kay?

[kuromitsu.livejournal.com]

I'm not into mpreg and have never written any, and I've never been in the BTVS fandom either, but I'll try my best!

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the links.

[(Anonymous)]

He's always portrayed with the Union Flag, never the English flag. He's called "Igirisu" not "Ingurando" in Japanese and in that song "Pub and Go" he literally sings "I'm UK." (Ware wa UK)

Besides, his brothers have only ever been mentioned.

Frankly, I see him as England, representing the UK... but also being the UK. He's only England in domestic affairs, so he would represent/be the union, meaning that he's the personification of the UK, despite also being England's personification while Scotland, Wales and (possibly) Northern Ireland having their own personifications as well.

So if each of the nations have the strength of their countries, then England would have the strength of England and the UK, meaning that he has his brothers' strength as well, because he's the UK.

To go into more detail on "Pub and Go" he sings/says "My name is (igirisu) United Kingdom/Britain. My formal name is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland." in the beginning. If that doesn't say it all, nothing will.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

How can he be England and the United Kingdom at the same time? How can he be England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland when we know they have a separate, independent existence? IMHO, being and representing are two different things: using my previous example, Russia represents the Soviet Union but he's still Russia and Poland+Lithuania are the Commonwealth but remain Poland and Lithuania.

I think this boils down to what you think the characters represent. I understand them as nations not as political entities.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I think you're confusing your headcanon with canon. In the strips, England is stated as the UK through igirisu, which means Great Britain. It's canon.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

Point taken.

[(Anonymous)]

When did I ever say they were political entities? Please don't put words in my mouth.

... They're human personifications of nations. How much logic can you possibly find in this?

Why is Prussia still around despite not being a proper nation anymore?

Why did Ancient Egypt/Greece have a kid and "died" when China's still around?

How the hell was Rome the "Roman Empire" despite all the other nations existing?

Why are there two Italies despite it being one country? Also, why are they Rome's grandchildren and not children like Ancient Egypt/Greece with Egypt/Greece... and where are their parents?

If you're going to be completely anal and go "ONLY CANON", then you know what? He's not England at all. He's just the UK. Problem solved.

[lovelycudy.livejournal.com]

Point taken.

[ecoerrante.livejournal.com]

Just to put this out there, but *because* he's representing the UK when it comes to international matters, it does follow that the other countries would be treating him that way, if only in public/business matters. In that set up, I'd think it would make more sense to call him the UK, unless there was a specific reason that whatever was going on was only dealing with the 'England' part of the UK. After that, people [and I'd assume personifications] tend to get into the habit of calling someone something, that could lead to it following over into non-public/business related parts of his life.

Granted, that's just what I think. ^^;;

[(Anonymous)]

LOL at Ingurando. No one says "Ingurando." Not arguing your point, but that part of your argument would work a lot better if anyone actually used "Ingurando."

[(Anonymous)]

Look it up in a dictionary. And believe me, I have met people who say (or write) "ingurando" to be specific. Not the most used word, no. But if you want to be specific, you use "ingurando", not "igirisu".

My classmate, and yes, I am in Japan, wrote an essay, in Japanese, about stereotypes about English people. And so it would be specific to England and not the UK, she wrote "ingurando".

Sorry. People can and do say/write "ingurando".

[kuromitsu.livejournal.com]

^What the other anon said. And brace yourself for a shock: Sukottorando, Weeruzu and Kita-Airurando exist as well. They don't appear too often for obvious reasons, but they're used when referring specifically to the countries and their people, such as in sports coverage, etc. Hell, the Japanese Hetalia fandom uses Ingurando: most writers I've seen have his brothers call him that in fanfics.

tl;dr: the word exists, people use it.

UHARD UNWASHED FAX

[(Anonymous)]

LOL AS IF HIMARUYA GIVES ONE SINGLE VIRGIN FUCK ABOUT POLITICAL OR HISTORICAL CORRECTNESS. HE'S JUST TROLLING THE SHIT OF YOU ASPIRING KKK MEMBERS FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES.

Re: UHARD UNWASHED FAX

[(Anonymous)]

well darn. I think I'll pull on my pointy little white hat and bedsheet and go hunt me some trolls.