[ SECRET POST #1572 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1572 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

I've heard people say that they're not getting LJ notifications for new posts - there's an RSS feed right over here that you can use! Just a heads up for those unaware.

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 276 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

14. http://i52.tinypic.com/t85e90.png

[tasteoftruth.livejournal.com]

My guess? They're there, but Lawrence is so proper and duty-bound that it would be plot-inconvenient for him to find out about it.

[yui-hime.livejournal.com]

Seconding this. Also, sodomy was illegal in those days, wasn't it?

[avocado-love.livejournal.com]

Came here to say this. Also, Granby has a major crush on him IMO. XD

[perrie.livejournal.com]

Temeraire secret! Omfg I love this series so much.

Also, I'm in total agreement. Sigh. Maybe it was an editorial decision...?

[(Anonymous)]

So she should put in couples, just so fangirls can squee?

Yeah.
No thanks.

[(Anonymous)]

Same. That's not what this series is about and it'd feel out of place. Besides, Temeraire and Laurence already have a slashable relationship. I don't need the sex to ship something.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's very, very interesting that Novik's fic is nearly entirely m/m, yet there's barely a hint of it in the Temeraire books, when (as I understand it) they themselves were originally conceived of as fic (and would thus have been m/m).

My guess is that she's avoiding it in order to have more mainstream appeal.

While I agree that it would be more honest for her to have some m/m in her original fiction, I can't really blame her for that particular decision.

[(Anonymous)]

It must be nice to have the best of both worlds at the expense of real gay men and women who are struggling with universal hatred and derision.

She can gather thousands of slash fangirls under her fandom name and then can pretend that The Dirty Queer doesn't exist in her 'mainstream' fantasy world that she sells for whatever huge bucks she gets. Not to mention that those slash fangirls, once they get wind of the worst kept secret in fandom, aka her professional name, will spend real money to buy those books.

Yeah, she's a genius all right. Just not the one she'd like to think she is.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure she has a fan-following outside of fandom.

I actually bought her books because I liked reading a simple yarn about dragons in the Napoleonic Era. And that's why I keep reading them - there are dragons, in the Napoleonic Era. That is cool.

And I didn't realize until several months after I had bought her series that she writes fanfiction. So yeah, I didn't get into her because of fandom. I got into her series because of fucking dragons. Dunno what everyone else is reading them for if not for the dragons, personally.

[amanda-violet.livejournal.com]

Man, I love those books.

She actually did reference gay navy dudes a couple of times, but in sort of a vague, embarrassed tone, given that the story is seen through Laurence's POV and he's all proper and honorable and stuff.

But yeah, even if there's no canonical, named homosexual couples, that's not going to stop me from shipping Laurence/Riley, Laurence/Granby, Tharkay/Everyone, Laurence/Berkley, Laurence/Temeraire, Laurence/Rankin hatesex...

[(Anonymous)]

Not sure if it was in relation to m/m couples, but I'm pretty sure I read an interview or something once where she said that Laurence is pretty much blind to anything that would be considered controversial unless he's kicked in the teeth with it (as he was with women serving in the corps, and killing malformed hatchlings). He's becoming more open-minded gradually. I'd say wait until the series is complete, and if there still isn't any m/m (or, heck, f/f) where there would realistically be, then there's proof that you're right.

Besides, it's pretty much canon that if Laurence and Temeraire were the same race, they'd be a romantic couple. Heck, Laurence has even stroke Temeraire's erogenous zone before, and even though it was inadvertent, Temeraire certainly didn't care that the source was the same sex as him...

[(Anonymous)]

Dragon masturbation jokes NEVER get old! XD

[(Anonymous)]

What bothers me about this line of argument is that first of all Laurence isn't a real person; if he's so blind and close minded, it's because Novik chose to write him like that. Secondly, she isn't writing historical fiction strictly speaking, but historical fantasy, so there is absolutely no reason not to tweak the universe so that there's a place for gay characters, just as she made a place for women.

When a straight male author born in 1914, who started writing in the the late 1960ies, managed to include numerous references to homosexuality in his books, most of them neutral to positive, I see no reason why a 38 year old female author writing in the 21st century can't even do as much, especially as she built her fanbase writing slash.

And as for waiting until the series is complete... there are six volumes out already. Personally, I'm a bit tired of waiting. Throne of Jade would probably have been the perfect volume to address this issue without much fuss.

[(Anonymous)]

Like the above anon said, Novik chooses to write Laurence like that. It's a very convenient way to get out of actually writing gay characters. "Sure they're there, you just never see them because the main character, who btw is under my complete control, never notices them!" It's kind of like JKR saying that Dumbledore was gay only after the whole series had ended. "Sure I included a gay character, you just never knew it!"

Sorry to say, I don't ship human/anything-but-human so the thought of Laurence/Temeraire is just icky to me. :/

[(Anonymous)]

Well, the ho-yay is pretty fucking strong, I'm fine with it as is. xD

And like someone else said, just because LAURENCE doesn't find out about it, doesn't mean it's not there. :)

[(Anonymous)]

And like someone else said, just because LAURENCE doesn't find out about it, doesn't mean it's not there.

I think the makers of Star Trek (or was it SGA?) made a rather similar idiotic argument once, too. The glaringly obvious problem with this logic is that invisible gay characters don't exactly help gay visibility and representation.

Seriously, this sort of attitude is why people complain that slash is objectifying and exploitative, and slash writers don't give a shit about real gay people.

[(Anonymous)]

And like someone else said, just because LAURENCE doesn't find out about it, doesn't mean it's not there. :)

Uh, yes it does. It means exactly that. If the POV character never sees something, neither do the readers.

[konora.livejournal.com]

http://temeraire-fans.livejournal.com/63141.html?thread=418213#t418213

She apparently plans on addressing this. It feels a bit like she's working her way through various social issues, dealing with one at a time through the novels. I don't think she has ever had any intention of sweeping queer characters under the rug, like some anons are accusing her of. And really, I would like the series less if she pushed a queer character to the forefront just for the sake of having a queer character. It would have felt, imho, like she was just pointing and going "There, you see? I've met my queer character quota!" instead of what I hope will be a more organic incorporation into the larger plot of the series.

To address the secret more directly: I love slash, but I sincerely hope that the series has more value to other fans than for its potential "rum, buggery, and the lash".

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with everything in this comment. And I personally believe that Novik knows what's best for her story; I'm sure that she already knows about the concerns that OP has raised, and I, for one, am under the impression that she's tackling the issues in such a way so that her story's integrity as a story is not compromised.

Because, yeah. I would be incredibly disappointed if the series turned out to be a soapbox or if characters showed up just to fill in some quotas. At that rate, I would vastly prefer no queer characters at all, tbqh.

[iapetusneume.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I need to catch up on the series (I've only read the first three), so I can't really speak on queer characters or the lack thereof in her books because I haven't even read all that are out yet.

But I do want to agree with you on wanting the books to be more than just an opportunity to slash. I love having queer characters to identify with in what I read... but to me the story itself is always more important. I don't want a "token gay character" or "token gay couple," and I don't like it when people try to get me to read a series by saying "there are gay guys boning in it." Let's say the series did have same sex pairings, the way to get me interested in the series would to still talk about the whole "alternate history during the Napoleonic era with dragons" thing. That is actually how my friend got me to read the first book. ...but then again, maybe a lot of this has to do with how I love a good story, whether or not there is any romance of any type.

/sorry for ramble

[(Anonymous)]

It's not her job to advance social justice and LGBTQ visibility in her books as an author. Sorry, but it's true.

I was also under the impression that Temeraire and Lawrence were pretty much written as romantic partners, except for the fact that they're different species. If that's the case, then it just gets down to the fact that they're the main couple, so of course Lawrence wouldn't be slashed with anyone else. *shrug*

That being said, I still think Granby has a huge mancrush on him. And I don't even ship them. :|

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'm torn between saying I'd like to see an acknowledgment of openly gay characters, too, and observing that there never seems to be a shortage of haters who resent anyone more successful than themselves.

I think I'll stick with my complex emotions and say I think both on this one.

So, anybody got Laurence/Temeraire recs?

[(Anonymous)]

There's gotta be some out there.

[shahrizai.livejournal.com]

This is one of the reasons why I hang out on JaiDani's side of the yard.