[ SECRET POST #1572 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1572 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

I've heard people say that they're not getting LJ notifications for new posts - there's an RSS feed right over here that you can use! Just a heads up for those unaware.

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 276 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[konora.livejournal.com]

http://temeraire-fans.livejournal.com/63141.html?thread=418213#t418213

She apparently plans on addressing this. It feels a bit like she's working her way through various social issues, dealing with one at a time through the novels. I don't think she has ever had any intention of sweeping queer characters under the rug, like some anons are accusing her of. And really, I would like the series less if she pushed a queer character to the forefront just for the sake of having a queer character. It would have felt, imho, like she was just pointing and going "There, you see? I've met my queer character quota!" instead of what I hope will be a more organic incorporation into the larger plot of the series.

To address the secret more directly: I love slash, but I sincerely hope that the series has more value to other fans than for its potential "rum, buggery, and the lash".

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with everything in this comment. And I personally believe that Novik knows what's best for her story; I'm sure that she already knows about the concerns that OP has raised, and I, for one, am under the impression that she's tackling the issues in such a way so that her story's integrity as a story is not compromised.

Because, yeah. I would be incredibly disappointed if the series turned out to be a soapbox or if characters showed up just to fill in some quotas. At that rate, I would vastly prefer no queer characters at all, tbqh.

Re: +1

[(Anonymous)]

So giving women a more active role, campaigning for the rights of dragons, trying to include racial minorities, and challenging the social norms of that age in all kinds of ways doesn't compromise the story's integrity, but a gay character would? Sorry, but I'm not buying that argument.

[iapetusneume.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I need to catch up on the series (I've only read the first three), so I can't really speak on queer characters or the lack thereof in her books because I haven't even read all that are out yet.

But I do want to agree with you on wanting the books to be more than just an opportunity to slash. I love having queer characters to identify with in what I read... but to me the story itself is always more important. I don't want a "token gay character" or "token gay couple," and I don't like it when people try to get me to read a series by saying "there are gay guys boning in it." Let's say the series did have same sex pairings, the way to get me interested in the series would to still talk about the whole "alternate history during the Napoleonic era with dragons" thing. That is actually how my friend got me to read the first book. ...but then again, maybe a lot of this has to do with how I love a good story, whether or not there is any romance of any type.

/sorry for ramble

[(Anonymous)]

Do you also complain that Jane, Catherine and Emily 'token female characters'? That Tharkey, Demane and Sipho are 'token COC'?

[iapetusneume.livejournal.com]

Honestly it's been a really long time since I've read the series so I don't remember much about the cast. I do remember wishing there were more women for sure, but also understanding that it might make it difficult given the time period its being written in.

I guess the point that I was trying to make was that it doesn't work to say to me "there are a lot of awesome ______ characters in it" (male, female, queer, straight, PoC, handicapped, young, old, etc...) to me when trying to get me into a series. I mean, I want them there but it isn't going to be the hook that gets me to pick up the book, watch the TV show, play the video game, etc. The hook is going to be the story. I would be just as interested with "Dragons in the Napoleonic Era" if the lead was a woman. Because of Dragons in the Napoleonic Era.


...I get the feeling that I'm not explaining this well.

[(Anonymous)]

No, I think you're understanding it perfectly, it's just that some people can't seem to grasp the concept that authors are allowed to write stories for purposes other than "fighting for social justice." The fact that it's an awesome story doesn't matter to them, because it doesn't advance their cause and therefore it's no good. To them, the fact that Naomi Novik ever wrote slash means that she's hypocritical every time she writes something where homosexuality isn't at the forefront.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, for Christ's sake, what kind of a stupid strawman argument is that? No one demands that homosexuality should be 'at the forefront', or that the stories are no good as they are. Just that a gay character would be nice. And as for social justice, she is already doing that when it comes to female characters and racial minorities, quite a bit actually, and rather 'at the forefront,' which makes the silence when it comes to gay characters so odd.

[(Anonymous)]

So including queer characters from the start ("...and that's Thomas Miles and his partner, Edward Bell. Oh, are you hungry, Laurence? We could go an eat something if you want to.") is less of an organic incorporation than pushing the whole issue to the forefront later ("and in this book Laurence will meet queer characters! I'm going to show how normal they are and also spell it out so you, dear reader, can't possibly miss it!")?

Maybe it's just me, but the latter sounds more like "There, you see? I've met my queer character quota!" than the former.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Not just you.

But apparently including queer characters ~compromises~ a story.

Re: +1

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure other fanficcers-turned-published-authors are weeping over their breakfast when they think about that. "Oh noes, I compromised my in retrospect quite popular books by writing queer characters in them!"

I mean, say what you want about Cassandra Clare (and you could say a lot), but at least she had the courage to include gay characters. As did, for a less of a characters-as-very-specific-fanbaits example, Sarah Rees Brennan.