fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1572 ]

[ SECRET POST #1572 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1572 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

I've heard people say that they're not getting LJ notifications for new posts - there's an RSS feed right over here that you can use! Just a heads up for those unaware.

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 276 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

For what it's worth, art is a skill not a talent.

I wasn't a good artist when I started (huge understatement), but with lots and lots of hard work, I'm getting there (I mean a chance at getting something professional, not just fanarty). If you're really serious about getting better OP, you can, and I'll be happy to recommend you some books (real classes are better, but more expensive). Just reply and I'll let you know what books I recommend.

Also, one of the big things that helps is finding someone who you want to draw/paint like and trying to figure out how they do it.

I have a tiny, tiny bit of drawing talent, but no money for classes, and no idea where to start working on improving. So yeah, I'd be interested in those book recs you mention :)

Not that anon but 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' is a good place to start~ You have to have a certain mindset when drawing from life.
Fanart isn't drawing from life, I realize, but this book is just the basics to get you headed towards the right direction.

Thanks a lot :) !

(I guess there's no reason to be anon for this; beware of MASSIVE Teal Deer!)

One of the main factors is how you want to draw/paint. I like stuff with line in it, so there are certain artists I look at more than others, but I have good recommendations for both kinds of art. The good news is that generally speaking, they're the same foundations! Yay!

Now I like the linear stuff (think Disney) so a bunch of people I personally look at are:
Arthur Rackham and Edmund Dulac for older stuff, and Claire Wendling for newer stuff.

The Art of Tangled is great for this if you can get your hands on it as it has tons of stuff from Glen Keane. (Almost any of the Disney art books are good for this and you can get Hunchback and Pocahontas art books for really cheap now/stalking it for a month or so).

I really like the gesture so for that I'd recommend checking out the Walt Stanchfield Drawn to Life books. They are a guide to what's important to think about when drawing for animation.

For the more rendered approach two of the more modern guys I'd look at are Frank Frazetta, Donato Giancola, and James Gurney (of Dinotopia). I've chosen the last two because they're really good at teaching too. Donato has a great "How-to" section on his website, and James Gurney has a couple of good books showing how he does it here. Donato has a DVD out that has him going through an entire painting from start to finish, and even the trailer is really helpful. Note his process - most of the best artist go through it from thumbnail, to reference, to pencil, to painting.

Okay, as for actually drawing something, the first thing you need to do is draw from a model. That can be a real person or a good photo (they have artists stock photos even on deviantart). If you're just starting, I recommend something with a strong light source - it's easier to see form and shape. A real model is best if you can find one, but drawing from a photo is so much better than drawing from your head.

The important part to remember about the figure is that it's all made of relatively simple shapes, even though it's complex as a construction. I recommend looking into Hogarth or Bridgman for human anatomy (they are quite good at explaining. Andrew Loomis is great too (though I haven't used him as much), but his books are out of print, but are kept in circulation online. Always remember to draw big forms before small ones. Get the whole person down before you think about adding eyes, fingers, etc. You'll be able to pick up any problems in the overall figure first, you'll get the pose better, and you won't spend hours doing a hand before you realize it needs to move to the left two inches.

For animals, I highly recommend The Art of Animal Drawing. It's by a former Disney animator and you can tell he really knows what he's doing.

ConceptArt has some really great advice too.

If there's something in particular you're interested in, please let me know (I may have more resources for that). If you're interested in cartoons, it's crazy, but drawing the real figure helps a ton. Another thing is find a good artist to copy from (usually a professional to some degree) and just try to copy their work for practice - see how they do it!

Waaaahh! *flails* Thank you so much :D ! I'll definitely be looking into all this :)

Another thing is find a good artist to copy from (usually a professional to some degree) and just try to copy their work for practice - see how they do it!

I've tried to do that, but it's just too overwhelming when I'm just starting. I feel like I have to do too many things at once, and I don't even know in which order it would be best to do them! It's just discouraging... I need some bases first, you know?

So anyway, thanks for all this! Maybe I'll be sending you some not-too-awful fanart in a couple of years ;) Any particular request :P ?

Sure thing! I have some more things I can recommend if you have something you want to try in particular, just let me know!

I completely understand! I'd recommend doing simple still lifes and figures first until you learn some hand-eye coordination and get a general idea of form. Most artists use form even if really stylized (and that's what still lives can teach you at first).

Not a problem! You're welcome to contact me anytime if you have questions/want some critique. :D I swear I'm nice! (You don't need to do fanart, but I like Disney and Avatar (the cartoon)!)

Also, I forgot it before, but I recommend

art_skill_trade and The Seven Camels Blogspot. This post is also particularly useful. The website is in Japanese, but it's pretty visual. You might also check out Glenn Vilppu he has a great series of lectures, but the drawing manual is good too. (Also, a nearby library might have the tapes.)

Look at this guy's thread on CA: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114449

He went from zero to AWESOME in two-three years and his entire process is recorded there. He also posts a lot of tutorials and general thoughts on his dA - http://algenpfleger.deviantart.com/

The thread might give you an idea where to start :) Good luck!

Wow, man O.o ! That's impressive! Thanks so much for this awesome inspiration :D

Telling people that if they try hard enough at something they'll be good at it really annoys me. I understand where you're coming from, and that it's supposed to be helpful, and that it was true for you. But you're basically saying that if anyone can't master art then they're not trying hard enough. That's just not true. Some people really seriously are not talented or skilled at art (or music or dance or etc). And no amount of hard work or years of training will change that. They might get slightly less horrible, but they'll never be artists.

I don't mean to say OP can't be an artist if they try, but hard work will only get you so far. Just like raw talent will only get you so far. It's a combination of both, and you really can't have one without the other.

Sorry, just hit a nerve.

Well, to be frank, I get upset at people disregarding my hard work as "talent." I don't usually complain as it's meant as a compliment, but it couldn't be farther from the truth!

It's taken me years and years to get where I am. It wasn't talent, it was countless hours of practice. There is some innate ability to see things, but overall it's the work and training yourself to see things.

I'll never be a musical genius (to be frank, I suck at music), but I could certainly learn to play the piano decently if I put the work into it. Odds are, most people could learn how to draw or paint or sculpt to some degree, if they put in the years of practice.

Oh, I definitely didn't mean to dismiss your hard work! Sorry if it came off that way. But that's why I said it was a combo of talent and hard work. Like I said, I don't mean to dismiss your hard work, I'm just saying that you can't make something out of nothing. You need both hard work and at least a scrap of talent to start with.

Thanks, and I'm sorry too. The more prevalent attitude seems to be that it's just talent and only a very small percentage of the population has, and that if someone doesn't get a masterpiece with their first go then they're not artistic and should just give up. That's wrong. A lot of people can do something, but just haven't given it a strong go. I'm really sorry that it's not the case for you. For what it's worth I'm serious about the music thing, I just have no feel for music and sometimes I feel like I'm really missing out.

I hope you have found something that makes you happy.

I disagree. It's true that some people may stale because they get stuck and don't have the natural instinct to know where to go and what to do to improve, but anyone can become amazing with hard work (and perhaps someone to guide them). I have a friend who had absolutely NO talent for anything (as rude as it sounds), yet she tried and tried and ended up going to one of the top design schools and now she's doing a pretty good job at being a costume designer. I was amazed at how good she's become, knowing how crap her drawings used to be.

Maybe I'm just taking it too personally. I have tried really really hard all my life to be artistic, and it just didn't happen. So when people come in and say that it's not talent, it's just the fact that I haven't tried hard enough, it's pretty darn insulting and depressing to me.

Like I said above, I do think there's a lot of hard work involved, I just think that it has to be a combo of work+talent.

Talent simply means you'll understand things a bit faster, but it's far away from being everything. I'm sorry art didn't work out for you, have you tried getting help from forums and such? Sometimes one needs a good nudge in the right direction to make the first step towards improvement. It's a slow process, but I'm convinced anyone can do it.

I actually grew up in a family of artists. I've been really lucky and have been exposed to a lot of different techniques and talents. Believe me, I've tried everything. It's just not gonna happen for me. I've mostly accepted this about myself, I just get a little touchy about it now and then.

To be honest, I never know how to interpret it when people talk about how all it takes is hard work, because I have no idea if their idea of someone who's bad or inexperienced at art is the same as how bad and inexperienced I am.

Because here's the thing: when I see a piece of bad fanart decried as looking like a five-year-old drew it, and how embarrassing it is that the artist is 20 or something...usually it's still better than what I'm capable of. Even drawing simple polygons and doodles can be a challenge for me. I have reason to believe that, in general, I don't have very good hand-eye coordination. I have taken art classes, and occasionally I manage drawings that I don't think are completely horrible, but I'm not confident that practice will ever make me really good.

Not the anon, but one thing I'd say is see if there's improvement. Almost no artists are just fantastic when they start drawing, but the good ones are the ones that were able to get past not being able to draw.

My advice would be draw something from life or photo reference every day for a month, and use that as your litmus test? If you see improvement, then if you keep at it, odds are you'll still improve. It's unfortunately it's impossible to prove a negative, but that might be one test you might give yourself. The other thing to try is drawing a photo or a drawing upside down. It sounds stupid, but it'll stop your brain from getting in the way by saying "This is an eye! I draw it like this!" and it'll let you try to get a feel for the shapes of things.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try. I haven't practiced recently, but would like to get back into the routine of it (I enjoy drawing, even if I suck).

I've found the best way to really get better is to do something every day. It kicks your brain into building on the knowledge it has (like if you practice a language for half an hour a day you're a lot better than doing 5 hours at once). It also helps if you make a checkmark on a calendar after you do it every day - that way you have all those little checkmarks pushing you on!

Do you have any advice when it comes to subjects for drawing? I like drawing people, and sometimes draw from pictures, but I've gotten the impression that that can be too complicated when you're inexperienced. So I was concerned I'd just develop bad habits or something if I did that (not that I have aspirations of becoming a great artist).

If you're not confident with people yet, try something simpler like a still-life. You could also try something like a doll or a mannequin. What I find makes the biggest difference is if you're drawing something you're interested in. A drawing of your favorite ring will always turn out better than a lamp you forced yourself to draw even though you hate it.

The crazy thing is that you'll notice an improvement no matter what subject you look at. I'd recommend looking at a doll or mannequin with joints so you can see the simple shapes of the body, then apply that to the real thing. :) If you look at Bridgman's or Hogarth's books, they talk about it a lot. This is kind of what I mean - just very general shapes, don't worry about details yet. Drawing an eye perfectly doesn't mean much if your figure looks like a flounder.

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