Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-04-25 07:38 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-04-25 07:38 pm
[ SECRET POST #1574 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 173 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ], [ 1 - unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
no subject
This is a thing that actually happens? LOL. Well, thank you, and sometimes disagreeing is good. Sometimes you don't know what you really think until a disagreement breaks out.
there have been studies done showing that constantly thinking about and fapping to children can enhance the chances of a pedophile losing control and actually doing it
Studies done on the effects of exposure to porn on rates of sexual offenses in general (i.e. rape, child molestation, etc.) actually show completely paradoxical correlations, from what I've seen. (Internet access goes up as sex offenses go down, but sex offenses go up the more people who own a computer, apparently. WHAT. How is this even mathematically a thing.)
But now we're getting into a much larger argument about what sort of effect porn has on people, and that's a debate that remains totally unresolved. Nobody can claim anything about it with total certainty at this point, and anyone who says their side is unquestionably the right one (and here's the studies to prove it) is full of shit and cherry-picking no matter what side they're arguing.
(Note: I don't mean you.)
Also, the specific studies you mention were probably only done on clinical/correctional populations. Biased and whatnot, yes?
But honestly, that wasn't my actual concern. I'm much more bothered by this, "your sexuality is wrong, NOW STOP IT," thing I'm getting from the OP. I mean, they aren't just talking about disliking loli/shota as a kink (although I suppose they meant to); "sexualizing children" doesn't stop at just the porn, and they are talking about people they obviously think are genuine pedophiles (whether they are or not).
"If you were a better person, you'd just STOP being attracted to kids," is the message I got from the OP, and it's such a terribly useless and (I'd say) harmful one. It's exactly that kind of thing that makes people who are pedophiles everything from "too scared of judgment to seek any therapy" to, "intensely resentful and taking up volunteering with kids just to throw you the bird."
Telling people how much they suck for what they're attracted to accomplishes exactly nothing.
to be fair, i don't know if there was any sort of control used to find out how much of that was just the fapping or the interaction with child molesters who encouraged them to do it because it's really okay, the kids want it or some such shit
Oh, I personally think the latter has a LOT to do with it. Observational studies on those sorts of interactions between pedophiles all tentatively reach similar conclusions about the effects of that sort of group encouragement on offenses/effectiveness of sex offender treatment/etc. But obviously, it's impossible to "prove."
I recently wrote a paper (just for a class, no big thing) comparing guys on pedophile boards to a group of 30 pedophiles who are NOT members of those sorts of things, and the differences in the way they thought about adult/child sex and child porn were HUGE. On child porn specifically, the group of 30 I looked at considered porn a permanent substitute that helped them to remain in control. The guys on the boards saw kiddie porn as (often resented) temporary relief measures.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-04-26 02:48 pm (UTC)(link). . . aaand then continuing to do just that in your last two paragraphs, only in the light YOU want to to be shown in.
I'm much more bothered by this, "your sexuality is wrong, NOW STOP IT," thing I'm getting from the OP.
I know pedophiles. I know they suffer deeply and did not ask to be attracted to what they are, and are usually victims of past abuse themselves. But? "these are bad/wrong urges"? Is actually a great mindset for them to have. It is wrong, and yes they should stop it.
This flabbergasts me: "intensely resentful and taking up volunteering with kids just to throw you the bird."
There is NO JUSTIFICATION for putting children in harms way. "Boo hoo you were mean to me so I'm going to make it way easier for me to mentally scar a child." What. If you know of any pedophile who is willingly spending time with children just to ~throw society a bird~ you have an obligation to report that pedophile and get them out of that environment for the safety of the children, and for the future of that pedophile.
This isn't just sexuality, this isn't breaking ~hetero-normatives~, it's damage. Pedophiles are damaged. They usually need a LOT of help and self control to get through their life without hurting someone, and indulging in their injury is not how most of them go about doing it successfully.
Seriously, if your friend swore off meat forever, wouldn't you be worried about their vow if they started searching out meat preparation shows? Started book marking recipes? You move AWAY from temptation, not sit there inches away from it with your dick in your hand.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-04-26 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)But? "these are bad/wrong urges"? Is actually a great mindset for them to have. It is wrong, and yes they should stop it.
This is a ridiculous thing to say. They can't just 'stop it' - they can prevent themselves from hurting children and avoid children, but they can't just stop having a sexual attraction to them. And it's not the attraction itself that is bad and wrong, it's the damage they would inflict by acting on that attraction. It's a subtle but important difference, and I don't see how it helps anyone to go "you are a horrible evil person for having these urges and unless you stop having them you always will be." That just drives them out to seek help and support from people that are going to encourage them to harm children.
no subject
. . . aaand then continuing to do just that in your last two paragraphs, only in the light YOU want to to be shown in.
You misunderstood me here, I think. When I said the above, I was referring to the arguments about whether or not porn is addictive, whether or not it increases the rates of sexual violence, etc.
My last two paragraphs are about the justifications and excuses exchanged between pedophiles on message boards vs. guys who are not engaged in that sort of thing. The porn thing is just one example of how these interactions seem to influence how pedophiles FEEL about their pedophilia. I see that I probably should have used another example, since that was confusing in the context of this discussion.
(Are the guys who don't engage in those interactions and who believe porn helps them control themselves actually RIGHT? At the moment, I don't think we know. I DO think it's interesting that they approach porn that way, as opposed to the message board guys, who don't see any need to "control" themselves to begin with.)
But? "these are bad/wrong urges"? Is actually a great mindset for them to have. It is wrong, and yes they should stop it.
...
Except that they, um, can't. You can't cure pedophilia.
Just. what.
...Okay I see the other anon has covered everything I would have said. So, yeah, THAT. *points up*
If you know of any pedophile who is willingly spending time with children just to ~throw society a bird~ you have an obligation to report that pedophile and get them out of that environment for the safety of the children, and for the future of that pedophile.
Anonymous pedo on the intarwebs d00d, what the fuck do you expect me to do? I'm not Perverted Justice.
You move AWAY from temptation, not sit there inches away from it with your dick in your hand.
I would generally agree, but I would mainly consider staying away from risky situations with kids to be the main thing to focus on. I'm not convinced that avoiding porn is a necessity for any given person (although it may be for some with more addictive personalities). I don't have any PROOF for how I, personally, feel about that, so we may just have to agree to disagree.
But then, if fantasizing about, and watching porn of, skeevy shit makes you dangerous despite any clear desire not to be, then I'm really goddamn dangerous.
Which I doubt.