fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1595 ]

[ SECRET POST #1595 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1595 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 170 secrets from Secret Submission Post #228.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

yeah, this.

if i didn't pirate, i wouldn't be able to buy the game anyway. so they're not losing any money off me pirating, because i am too poor to buy it.

That's sort of circular logic, though. By all accounts, they're still losing money, because you're getting their product for free. Although I suppose this can be argued even more circularly, given that the product isn't physical and therefore they haven't actually lost money, they've just failed to earn it...

I think I just confused myself, actually... XD

haha, yeah, i can see what you mean.

they've failed to earn my money, but ... they would have failed to earn my money had i not pirated it, because there is no physical way they could do so, seeing as i have no money for them to earn from me. therefore, they are no worse off than they are before.

but i do see what you mean, though. i think i've sort of confused myself too, haha.

Yes, something like that XD It would be more clear-cut if it were a physical product that they had invested money in producing. Like, say, if you stole a TV from a store. The money they put into building the TV would be lost completely. But since we're talking about intellectual property, something that was not physically built and can easily be replaced by copying some files, if you wouldn't be able to buy it ANYWAY... they're not losing a profit off of you, they just aren't gaining one.

There's a ton of money invested into making video games. It's not like they just say "shit let's make a game" and it magically happens. There are programmers, modelers, writers, voice-actors, artists, and a bunch of other people who all put effort into the game and all have to be paid by the production company, whether the game makes a cent or not.

So yes. It is a physical object they have invested money in. A TV isn't necessarily going to sell but they still have to pay the workers to put it together and buy the materials to make it.

This argument is bad and you should feel bad.

The hostility is unwarranted. I was merely pointing out that the whole thing was made up of circular logic. I even stated to begin with that the argument could be made FURTHER circular by going down that path. I'm not actually advocating piracy. I was simply pointing out the flaws in their argument, and then noted that my own could be construed as equally flawed. I KNOW it's a bad argument; hence why I brought it up in the conversation, given what I was saying to this person.

In addition to this, you completely misread my statements. My point was not that they didn't invest money into making the game; my point was, if someone who does not plan on spending the money on buying a copy of the game ANYWAY downloads it illegally, the game company has not actually LOST money; they have just failed to earn any. They wouldn't have made a profit off of this person either way, and because it is not something physical that had to be made, they haven't lost any money off of the materials used to make it. They just haven't EARNED any off of them, either. That doesn't change the fact that it's still illegal and wrong to do so.

basically. what most pirates do is not walk into a store and steal a physical copy of the game/show/movie/etc that could have otherwise been sold. what most pirates do is download an electronic copy of the game, which is not removing a copy that could have otherwise been sold. they aren't removing anything, they're only copying it and taking the copy.

Which is still taking something that does not belong to them.

Yes, it is. But that is not at all the point of this particular conversation thread. No one is denying that pirating is theft; it was merely a brief conversation on faulty arguments and semantics. (The difference between losing money and not making money.)

That distinction 'losing money' vs 'not making money' is useless for IP, which involves almost NO cost in the production of the DVDs/CDs/discs as compared to the cost of producing the IP. This is semantically dancing around pirating, because technically the only money games make are via the IP - when somneone steals a game, the loss isn't calculated as 'we lost that 50 cents the physical disc cost to produce' and more 'we lost another sale which would have paid back the investors for the hundreds of thousands of dollars this cost to produce' and essentially convinces investors that investing a justifiable amount of money on quality products isn't worth it. It damages the entire industry.

THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. For heaven's sake, can none of you people read? I stated quite clearly in the beginning that the whole fucking thing was made up of circular logic. INCLUDING my response, which I did that way ON PURPOSE to make a point. It was not meant to be taken as a serious argument, and yet you people keep trying to take it like that.

Jesus fucking christ. People will make wank out of ANYTHING.

Apologies. I've just seen this argument actually used to support piracy so many times it makes my head spin.

Thanks.

I just recently lost my games based job, and I'm struggling to find anything else I can do, because there's a crap-ton of programmers out there, and a lot of people looking for work.

If people don't buy the games, we can't make more games, so...I suppose they're okay with shitty games, as long as they're 'free'.

...You are really fucking bitter. Pirates didn't take your job.

You lost your job. Boo hoo. I can't get one. If they pirated it, 99% of the time they weren't going to buy it if they couldn't get it free. What lost you your job? Was that there were people more valuable than you when the company was downsized.

We get it. "I was a programmer and now I'm screwed because there are lots!" Welcome to the fucking recession. Try being one of us who doesn't have a degree yet. There's hundreds more of us. Do you think we'll have better luck than you?

No...no pirating loses jobs, trust me. It's a running discussion in the entertainment industry now, both TV and games. IP theft IS theft, and it damages everyone. The fan demand for free stuff brings down the quality of everything.

If you like something, support it, so the creators and team making it can go on still making stuff. Vote with your dollar for what you'd like to see made, and the industry will gravitate towards that.

PS I'm not the games another, I'm another unemployed entertainment anon. I work in tv, and this is the worst I've ever seen it. I haven't been unemployed this long sing I graduated college.

The dip is pretty much all atrributed to pirating. We just can't bring in money with ad revenue or with DVD sales anymore. And don't bring up the stupid 'it's a recession' bs, luxury spending is UP and the entertainment industry, unlike others, tends to thrive in times of recession anyway.

Tsk. Tsk. Too busy blaming the pirates for the shortsightedness of your industry. First of all, if pirates are the downfall of the video gaming industry, why isn't the PC/Mac/Linux OS, application and utility industry collapsing, too? Why are these areas growing stonger? Could it be that they cater to a broader technology base? Look at how poorly sales of Vista and Windows 7, not bound to a new system purchase, are doing, as opposed to the ,still, record demand for the older, XP. Why? Because both Vista and Win7 have a much higher hardware standard and lack any real legacy to support old equipment. Does this sound familiar? The RIAA and the anti-piracy laws don't protect the artist, programmer and developer, any more than non-compete agreements protect a professional. They are to protect the profits of the Corporation and the most vociferous and proactive, about enforcement, have the WIDEST profit margins, the largest legal divisions and the most restrictive employee contracts. It is ironic that the biggest corporate proponents of anti-piracy are replete with a history of idea and talent theft, piracy and plunder, strong arm and extortion tactics, and undermining, or, outright, disregard for contracts and contract, anti-trust and anti-piracy law.

I'm not the biggest fan of the video game industry corporations myself, but that doesn't mean I support theft, usually perpetrated by people like you under the guise of 'sticking it to the man' if your post is anything to go by. I never blamed piracy for the downfall of the gaming industry and really, you need to pick your strawmen better. I haven't defended the gaming industry, I have attacked piracy.

That's not the point of their post at all. It's not about sticking it to the man; they were merely pointing out that, if piracy is such a big contributing factor to the failure and decline of the gaming and entertainment market, then by that logic, the computer application market -- which has an even bigger piracy value and threat than that for games -- would be failing as well. But it's not; it's thriving.

Because windows is used by businesses who purchase business licenses for HUGE lumps of cash. (See also: Photoshop etc...)

Because Mac is tied to the machines, and when you buy a machine that costs...a few hundred bucks to make for $1799, that's a lot of profit.

And then there's Linux, which...is pretty much free anyway.

Sorry, what was your point?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1595 ]

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