fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #158 ]

[ SECRET POST #158 ]

⌈ Secret Post #158 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

This is a magic post and I'm not really here. :D

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 58 secrets from Secret Submission Post #023.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, June 13th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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But what was the guarantee that someone else would have chosen to stay in fight? If I recall, only one of the other Pirate Lords wanted to fight, and Jack... well, it's implied that he's screwed most of the Brethren over at various points, so I can't see him entrusting his fate to anyone else in that room.

Sure, he might have voted for something else. But thematically, it makes sense for it to be Elizabeth, because otherwise, she probably would have been phased out of the story completely, since that was her big thing all through AWE, and why would the writers discard their protagonist?

Jack's not a Sue? He:
a)makes it with hot women all the world over
b)manages to outsmart practically everyone
c)pulls off stunts that would never, ever work
d)has a good heart underneath the scruffy pirate exterior
e)inspires loyalty in many people that he's screwed over multiple times
f)is super attractive (to both the audience and the cast)
g)knows practically everyone in the cast and has some hand in their backstory, no matter where they are from or what their background is
h)has mad skillz at basically everything he tries his hand at
i)is one of the focal points of the entire series

Personality isn't what determines a Sue. It's what they do and their role within the main storyline. Just because Jack is "quirky" doesn't mean that he cannot possibly be considered one.

Just to clarify, I'm not accusing Jack of being a horrible character or anything, but I'm just saying if we're pointing fingers at people being Sues or whatever, he ranks so much higher on the list, IMO, than either Will or Elizabeth.

What about the dog?

The dog is a total Sue. He's like Jack, but MORE.

No, man. It's the monkey. The monkey. Not only does it survive through everything, but it's a potential love interest for the super-hot parrot, and it's so damn lovable that even Barbossa baby-talks to it! Damn monkey.

Plus it counted as just payment for the secret of how to defeat the freaking Grim Reaper of the Seas. AND, UNDERNEATH IT ALL, THE MONKEY IS ACTUALLY FEMALE.

OH SHIT. D:

It's not personality? So a girl who's sweet, kind, loving, pretty, an angel born on earth, a healer, has a high voice, big eyes, needs to be saved constantly, and is loved by everyone can't be a sue based on that alone?

Characters can be put in generic situations with unique or different personalities, which is what makes them stray from the path of the cliche. Insert Jack.

Of the things you listed, the following are not personality traits: pretty, an angel born on earth, a healer, has a high voice, big eyes, needs to be saved constantly, and is loved by everyone.

But of the things remaining (being sweet, kind, and loving)... yeah, those don't automatically make a Sue.

So Elizabeth was bugfuck crazy, she wouldn't be a Sue? I mean, she's somewhat bitchy, entitled, gets frustrated easily, and isn't above using her sexuality or femininity to achieve her goals, and her plans don't always succeed. She is not loved by everyone. She has flaws that actually affect her. This isn't your classic sweet, innocent, damsel in distress, so it's not like she hits that stereotype, and she doesn't hit the STRONG WOMAN GIRL-POWER ROWR!!!1 stereotype either.

Ahaha, poor word choice. Not personality, just not... idk, not completely related to actions.

Um she does in the third movie lol. And yeah, if she were a nutjob, she wouldn't be a sue.

Um no she doesn't lol.

If she hit the strong woman stereotype, she would have gained all her positions through her own hand instead of getting them because she was being treated as a pawn by far stronger characters. So... what? She was in a few swordfights and got a few fancy titles that she didn't actually earn and benefited from circumstance. I really don't think that qualifies as the "I AM WOMYN HEAR ME ROAR" you see a lot in Sue fics

Like I said before, being a sue isn't based entirely on action events. She's a strong woman stereotype because IDK DID YOU WATCH THE MOVIE? She's all "I can speak up and be loud, because women can do that in the 1700s lololol", running around being one of the guys, a ship captain, sword fighting like a champ, being a sailor, DOING WHAT SHE HAS TO DO ROFL, etc. She's more a of a Sue, because in that time period, it's like a billion times over retarded for her to be a chick acting like that, especially since she's from an aristocratic society.

IMO, Elizabeth isn't all "I can speak up and be loud, because women can do that in the 1700s lololol" at all. And she's not the only female doing stuff in the movies :x Remember Anamaria from the first film? She had a minor role but was captaining the ship in Jack's absence at one point. The Chinese Pirate Lord was also a woman. Sao Feng's concubines were capable of fighting from the brief glimpse we saw of them.

You're complaining about a woman doing something and it being unrealistic in a movie with zombie pirates and a giant undead ship full of fishmen? I really doubt that Pirates is meant to be taken as being historically accurate. So in the second movie she learns how to fight (which she could have done in private with Will teaching her, and he's the best swordsman in the film), and through a series of circumstances, disguises herself as a dude and does some more shit to save the love of her life. I mean, she was never presented as being a keep-to-the-rules kind of gal anyway, and her father seemed to indulge her quite a bit, so her being willing to do (and learn to do) crazy shit for the sake of people she loves isn't too much of a stretch.

You keep jumping from problem to problem. If Elizabeth was a (crazy) man, she wouldn't be a Sue? That's ridiculous.

Fantasy yes, but they placed in (originally) in a realistic setting. Port Royal was a real place, there were actually pirates, there were actually governors. By taking what historical accuracy it had and throwing it out the window, the writers kind of destroyed the idea that THIS HAPPENED HERE or IT COULD BE YOU thing that Harry Potter pulls off so well.

WHy is that ridiculous? If Elijah was a crazy man who became a pirate whilst chasing his boyfriend, he wouldn't be a sue at all.

(deleted comment)

I guess you could think that, if you ignore everything else I said.

(deleted comment)

Uh, or you could just stop replying ROFL.

(deleted comment)

Re: (spoiler warning, before anyone clicks on this collapsed thread by accident)

panksters.livejournal.com - 2007-06-14 15:33 (UTC) - Expand

And I'm going to stop replying now because it seems quite obvious that you don't actually want an answer to your "How is she not a Sue?" question. No reply will ever convince you otherwise ~*~i get it~*~

I do want an answer. Just an answer that isn't retarded.

Okay, I am going to reply, because... you know, you pretty much just said that the points I and everyone else were making are invalid just because you disagree. People have been being logical and have been making thoughtful, well thought-out replies. They aren't "retarded" because you disagree with them. You asked a question, you got decent answers, and they've done a hell of a better job defending their side than you have been with yours.

Re: women acting that way. It's been historically noted that women did, on occasion, become pirates, such as Anne Bonny and Mary Read, who were from a similar time period. It isn't entirely unthinkable that a female character in extraordinary situations would do the same thing, especially since she had strong motivation for doing so. So it isn't completely crazy that it would happen, just unlikely. You know, unlikely like 99% of the film. ohshit.

I'm not saying that the writing and historical accuracy of Pirates is stellar; in fact, I think quite the opposite. I just really don't like this idea that Elizabeth's vagina makes her a Sue, or that people who disagree with you are retarded.

so to conclude:
lololololol retarded what a funny word lolololol

LOL YOU REPLIED.

Anne Bonnie became a pirate because she LIKE A GIRL fell in love with an already existing pirate. And she was bad at it.

Mary Read did it with LIKE A GIRL her husband.

Beisdes, Mary was hella poor.

Being a girl doesn't make her a sue. AS I HAVE MENTIONED I LIKED HER IN THE FIRST TWO MOVIES WAY TO READ LOL.

But um yeah, your ideas are still retarded.

I REPLIED? OH SHIT. You sound rather offended, don't take this personally :'(

Social statuses aside, I'm just saying women did do it. Elizabeth had a reason for doing it (because LIKE A GIRL, she was thrown into that situation by the man she loves and the man she is/was sexually attracted to and also she was kidnapped that one time), but who cares about character motivation or surrounding circumstance lololololol what a sue.

AWE!Elizabeth is pretty much DMC!Elizabeth with nothing added except an extra title or two lololololol those titles sure do make her a sue.

I personally think that it is you who are retarded, between this and everything else I've ever seen you do (crazy internet speak is totally cruise control for cool LOL), and the arguments you're making right now are completely laughable lololololol RETARDED.

Maybe if I say retard enough, I'll be cool. lol or maybe I'm just retarded.

lol.

lol.

idk I guess you didn't read. I like Elizabeth in the first two ROFL.

I would just stick with retarded. Only cool kids can be cool sorry2say.

Right, so that's two of them. What about the others?

Hi, you're a misogynistic twat. :D

Yeah, I hate women so much. Get back in the kitchen.

Re: (spoiler warning, before anyone clicks on this collapsed thread by accident)

sarajayechan.livejournal.com - 2007-06-14 18:38 (UTC) - Expand

Re: (spoiler warning, before anyone clicks on this collapsed thread by accident)

panksters.livejournal.com - 2007-06-14 19:32 (UTC) - Expand

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