fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1615 ]

[ SECRET POST #1615 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1615 ⌋

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 185 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Oh, I'm sorry, I was of the impression that as a SEX, men could be the target of SEXism. You know, such as 'men abuse women'/

lol k

you obviously don't give a fuck, but misandry is a joke and not at all comparable to misogyny. Prejudice + Power, come on now this is like 101 bullshit. Catch up with the rest of the class.

*yawn* why do I only see that trotted out to excuse bigotry? Prejudice without power might not be equal, but it's still plenty wrong.

oh, fuck off, you

they have a point tho

yeah misandry on a SOCIETAL LEVEL is nowhere near misogyny on a SOCIETAL LEVEL, but on a personal level any bias against either sex is not good and does exist. The OP is acting like a misandrist and deserves to be called out on it

Yeah, people who've been abused should just GET OVER IT!!!

if by "get over it" you mean "realise that the person/people they were abused by are individuals and not representative of half the population of the world" then yeah, get over it

No, they should not hate a group of people based on inborn characteristics, even if some people who treated them poorly had those inborn characteristics. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Germans massacred my relatives. An Ohioan abused my grandfather in his dying days, and another one drove me to the edge of suicide. I hate neither Germans nor Ohioans, because doing either of those is unfair to others who share those traits.

do you think it is ok to hate people

Okay, I've had it with this fucking bullshit argument. Sexism against men is VERY real. It's part of the patriarchal system that supports sexism against women. Both forms of sexism are linked together, forcing people into artificial gender roles.

For every woman who is called a bitch for acting "like a man should", there's a man being shamed for showing his feelings. For every fauxminist saying that men are pigs who can't control themselves, there's a rape-apologist claiming that since men can't control themselves, it's the woman's fault for dressing up slutty, whatever the hell that means.

We have to start watching the big picture and see how putting one gender down affects not only the other genders, but the society as a whole.

So no. I don't buy your prejudice+power theory and I don't appreciate that you assume that your truth is the only possible truth there is.

So... what you're saying is that sexism against men is really just collateral damage to sexism against women.

And this means that we have to give a fuck about the poor oppressed mens why?

.... you

said this

far better than I did with my tl;dr

thank you, I shall now diminish into the west and wank on fandom secrets no more

1. Because both forms of sexism work together to damage women.

2. Because believing that All Men Are Rapists damages women. Since, according to this idea, being a rapist is a universal characteristic of men worldwide, the blame of rape is put back on the woman. After all, she should have known better than to be around men! They can't help themselves, don't you know!

3. Because forcing men into strict gender roles damages women, perpetuating the stereotype that being femenine is bad and below a manly man.

4. Because believing that there's a biological characteristic that makes men inherently inferior to women damages women, supporting the idea that differences between women and men are natural and biological and not cultural and therefore inequality is also natural and biological.

5. Because erasing the ways misogyny hurts men damages women, since making people realize how the system hurts them is the best way to gain an ally.

6. Because we're not fucking pricks who only care about the issues that hurt us! I'm white but I try to be an ally when it comes to race issues! I'm not trans* but I'm active in the movement against transphobia in my local lgtb group! Spare some fucking sympathy to your fellow human beings, god!

ilu<3

... dfhjaghfj why are you missing the point so hard.

THERE ARE NOT TWO FORMS OF SEXISM. THERE IS ONE FORM OF SEXISM THAT AFFECTS BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. ONE GROUP VASTLY, VASTLY, VASTLY MORE THAN THE OTHER, CONSIDERING IT IS THE SEX THAT IT, YOU KNOW, TARGETS.

In order to fix "sexism" against men, we need to primarily address sexism against women. Anything else is treating the symptoms and not the cause!

Fucking A.

I get your point. I disagree with it.

THERE IS ONE FORM OF SEXISM THAT AFFECTS BOTH MEN AND WOMEN.

I agree with you on that point, but I knew the OP didn't, so I expressed myself in the way that'd take less explaining on my part.

Anything else is treating the symptoms and not the cause!

And what is the cause, pray tell? Because whatever it is, I think it's too complex to treat it directly. We can only treat the symptoms and that's what we do: we spread our message, we fight slut-shaming, we rally for equal pay. Why not treat the symptoms that affect men more directly, too?

5. Because erasing the ways misogyny hurts men damages women, since making people realize how the system hurts them is the best way to gain an ally.

This shouldn't be the women's fight. This should be everyone's fight. Since, you know, we're trying create this brave new world that EVERYONE will get to enjoy. But if we want everyone to be involved in this fight, we can't just attend the issues that affect white-cis-middle-class-women and ignore everything else.

Not necessarily. Who's to say that if all sexism against women was magically fixed, all sexism against men would poof away at the same time.

Both are problems, both exist. Saying "But this is the root cause!" is bull. Society is not one person. There's lots of reasons for irrational hatred and prejudice, and those numbers can be tied to the population of irrational haters and bigots.

ngggfhjgf

it's like you caught this brief glimpse of the issue and then took a nosedive off into not-fucking-getting-it-ville. Because what you are saying is completely true but here is the thing: all of our fucked up gender issues stem. from. misogyny. The social pressure men experience is a pressure to not be associated with "detestable" feminine roles and those guidelines are partly in place to keep women oppressed and men on top. Your argument is not incorrect, but you're missing the key point here and that is that it's not women with male exclusionary second wave feminist view points keeping that system in place. It's men. Men fucking policing other men.

Sitting around whining about women and their omg misandry does nothing but set up this stupid dichotomy where women hating men somehow has the same social currency as men hating women and we're on some kind of craaaaaazy slippery slope where the pendulum is on the cusp of swinging back the other way and cats and dogs are living together in harmony and creepy shit like the masculism movement is considered valid.

If discrimination isn't prejudice+power, what is it? :/

I think it was clearly stated that it is not the same on a societal level.

However, do you honestly not see the problem of hating an entire group of people for the sole reason that they belong to a group even IF that group is not currently being oppressed? If I were to say I hated all blondes because if something a blonde did to me once, would I not be incredibly unreasonable? And pretty much vile and hateful, even though it is not in my power to oppress blondes? The fact is that hate generates hate. And setting up people into us-against-them camps only created more alienation and misunderstanding about the wants and needs of the other party.

Ahahahaha

hahahahaha

ha ha ha

I'll take that as a "no" then.

You really didn't expect me to take a straw man that ridiculous seriously did you? It's not like I don't read f!s. You are in every feminist thread always histrionically clutching your pearls about how sexism isn't that bad and everyone should stop complaining because your life experiences haven't been that bad bluh bluh false dichotomies.

tbh I think OP here is kind of a moron and if her admission of abuse is true, she should probably keep it out of fandom. I just find it disturbing how many people on this comm are always ready to leap up and be edgy men's right's activists as if no one else has ever thought "WOW THERE ARE MALE GENDER ROLES TOO".

Re: -1

kallanda-lee.livejournal.com - 2011-06-06 17:46 (UTC) - Expand

I won't go into all the things that misogynous women can and *do* do to police men.

No, male exclusionary feminism is not keeping the system in place, but it's not doing anything to overthrow it. We're not going to achieve anything sticking our fingers inside our collective ears and going 'la la la women have it so hard, men have it so easy!'. If we really want to change things, we have to accept that misogyny affects and limits *everyone*. Only when we stop thinking of feminism as a battle between us and The Evil Cis Man (And Possibly Trans* If You Are That Kind Of Feminist) and start thinking of it as a battle against constricting gender roles, only when we accept that men should be part of this battle, we will win.

And that aside, is it really that hard to understand that judging about 50% of the world for something they didn't have any control over is a dick move? It sets up a us vs. them mentality and, hey, guess what? That's exactly what the patriarchy wants us to do! It's the same shit TPTB have been doing for centuries, to convince us that women and men were soooo different that of course inequality was natural and supported by biology.

We all do our bit to support the system. A woman going 'all men are the same!' is doing her part. It's not as big a part as man making a sexist remark, but it's still helping. Why would be want to help the system at all?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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