[ SECRET POST #1622 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1622 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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TRIGGER WARNING FOR RAPE

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 242 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Personally, as a girl who played hockey for 10 years and got into it just when it was starting to get more attention (in the states, mid-late 90s), I don't want there to be co-ed teams.

Not that I don't think that women can't play with men. But because I want women to earn that respect and popularity own their own. If women played with men, we'd only ever hear about how 'said woman is so good only because she has the male players to ~protect her and make her look good.' Sure, a woman might be credited with achievements, but there would always be the 'well, if it weren't for the MEN ... '

It's not like there still aren't disparaging remarks about female athletes' accomplishments because of the inevitable comparisons to male teams (see: UConn Women's most wins record beating the UCLA men's team, wherein people claim it ~isn't as good~ because ~men have it harder~). But I think that problem would be further exacerbated by having a co-ed team.

[childings.livejournal.com]

I really don't think having separate teams for women and men is ever going to earn female athletes respect (when it comes to team sports anyway), because most people are just going to dismiss women's sports as being second-tier compared to the men's game. I think people who watch sports would be a lot more impressed to see a female hockey player muscle her way through a bunch of male hockey players or a female soccer player out-maneuver a male soccer player, than they would watching an entire game where there are only women playing.

[(Anonymous)]

I think people who watch sports would be a lot more impressed to see a female hockey player muscle her way through a bunch of male hockey players or a female soccer player out-maneuver a male soccer player, than they would watching an entire game where there are only women playing.

Have you even PLAYED ice hockey? If not, then you need to shut up. Girls get very little respect for playing on boys' teams. If people aren't complaining that the girl should have her own team ('this is a BOYS team, why does she HAVE to be on it?!') then they're complaining that the girl makes the team worse or only looks good because of the males on the team who are CLEARLY superior.

And girls generally get much less playing time than boys on a boys' team, regardless of their ability. Because they're delicate little flowers who need to be protected and will only get hurt. And they'll hold the team back. They're seen as a hindrance more than anything else. There is VERY little respect for girls who play on boys teams -- the only way you'll earn respect is if you're an absolutely exceptional player.

[childings.livejournal.com]

Well, obviously forgoing co-ed sports is a GREAT way to dispel these sexist attitudes.

Forming separate teams for women isn't going to make sexism in sports go away, it's only going to bolster that attitude because women play on separate teams, so it's easier to ignore women athletes altogether (especially if the games don't get aired in a good timeslot or aired at all)

[(Anonymous)]

Well, obviously forgoing co-ed sports is a GREAT way to dispel these sexist attitudes.

Did you even read my first comment? I said there would always be sexist attitudes, but they are WORSE when it comes to co-ed teams. I have had firsthand experience with this and I have many friends who have experience with this.

Forming separate teams for women isn't going to make sexism in sports go away, it's only going to bolster that attitude because women play on separate teams, so it's easier to ignore women athletes altogether (especially if the games don't get aired in a good timeslot or aired at all)

So let's just take away the ability for women to play sports at all, because there's no way a lot of them would be able to compete with men on the higher levels of the sport. Yeah, that would TOTALLY eliminate sexism in sports, you're right! Oh, no, WAIT, it wouldn't because then people would just say, 'OH I TOLD YOU WOMEN COULDN'T REALLY COMPETE WITH MEN.' At least when women are competing with other women you can make a stronger case for them being just as good with men because they're all on equal playing fields.

(Again, I point to the UConn womens' basketball team and their record-breaking number of wins.)

It's people like you who are part of the problem, to be perfectly honest.

[childings.livejournal.com]

No, it's people like you who accept current sexist attitudes as they are and do nothing to challenge them that are the problem. And forming separate sports teams for women doesn't do as much to challenge the problem of sexism, people are always going to ignore them in favor of men's teams no matter how much money or exposure you throw at the women's teams.

Again, I point to the UConn womens' basketball team and their record-breaking number of wins

That's great. Did you see the part in this thread where I said I was totally cool with women's college teams and I was only referring to professional teams? No? Okay.

We fundamentally disagree and I'm sorry that makes you mad, but you aren't changing my mind. And this discussion isn't really going anyway, so fine, consider me sexist or whatever because I want co-ed sports teams over sex-segregated ones. The end.

[(Anonymous)]

To me it sounded like they meant if things stay the way they are (sex-segregated teams) then, yes, people will continue to ignore women's sports teams no matter what kind of exposure you give them as opposed to it's unlikely that people would ignore an entire sport because it's co-ed. You're nitpicking anyways. childings made their stand on the issue quite clear.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, obviously forgoing co-ed sports is a GREAT way to dispel these sexist attitudes.

Yes, you're right, we should just eliminate womens' sports ENTIRELY! Then we won't even have to worry about that pesky sexism issue getting in the way of our enjoyment of male athletes and their perfect sports.

[childings.livejournal.com]

Where did I ever say we should eliminate womens' sports ENTIRELY

[(Anonymous)]

i, a sports fan, could give two shits about most male sports. love watching the women's teams, though. i wouldn't want boys in there messing it up.

[childings.livejournal.com]

LOL ok
Who cares about proving that women can achieve what men can achieve, who cares about proving that female athletes are just as capable as male athletes by having them play each other, let's just sex segregate sports and have all of the exceptional female athletes play with and against mediocre the ones. That's apparently exciting. And fair.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with childings and couldn't have said it better myself.

I will add that my best friend was a goalie all throughout elementary and high school (mid-late 90s as well). We talked a lot about her teams together. She started on all-girls teams till she was about 14, then she switched to a boys team. Her reason was because the girls gave her a much harder time than the boys did. The boys, like childings pointed out, gave her more respect because she shattered their perception on women athletes. She was a decent goalie and had no problems keeping up with the rest of them. The girls were catty and made her feel like shit if she "let a goal in" never taking responsibility that it's a team sport and had their part to play too. It could be argued about the age differences, but even when she was playing with the boys her former female teammates would talk about her.

It's all about changing perceptions. That won't happen as long as there are separate teams. It's a moot argument that women athletes would need to be protected and will get hurt. The rules can change. Besides, in the case of hockey, real hockey isn't about body checking and enforcers handing out punches to the face. Go watch some junior As play hockey and see some real up and coming puck handling skills. Fighting isn't part of the game.