Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-06-20 07:36 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-06-20 07:36 pm
[ SECRET POST #1630 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 187 secrets from Secret Submission Post #233.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - take it to comments/wank elsewhere ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-06-21 06:53 pm (UTC)(link)Oh why don't you go to your #1 very helpful "tactic" of ignoring them? Then everyone can be happy! Except you, the victim, but by your own advice you shouldn't speak up because then people will find you to be an annoying little twerp for defending yourself. :(
no subject
My, but I do hate having to repeat myself in civilized debates. But I seem to have run the natural course of this line of reasoning if I'm being forced to loop back on myself.
Aside from that, it seems pretty clear that nobody in here is a troll that feeds on the attention of being yelled at. So even if we do have our heels dug in a bit and we're a bit too stubborn to find a middle ground if such a beast exists, I know that I'm at least hearing anon (whether that's you or a different anon), and I choose to believe that you/anon are hearing me, whether we agree with each other or not. And clearly, you're not the only one reading. So no, thank you, I choose to attempt a reasonable and open discussion with reasonable and open people (Yes. That's you, anon.) in hopes that whether or not I change any minds, I can at least point out where I and several others see problems with this movement.
So let's say it one more time:
- Use your words. You're not in Kindergarten anymore, you can't get what you want by crying and pointing.
- Try to remember that everyone slips up in their words now and then. Just because they misspoke doesn't make them a horrible person.
- Yelling at people without offering a reason doesn't dissuade them from their abhorrent behavior.
You do realize that in the time people spend writing up paragraphs and essays about how my motives are caused by me being brainwashed by society into seeing the white heterosexual male being lifted onto a pedestal and me being okay with this is just a function of growing up in this society (which, again, these people have no clue who I am or where I'm from, they don't know what society I'm part of) and how the plight of their own chosen minority demographic is one that has suffered for generations and hundreds of years and that because of this they are off-limits for jokes and unfair treatment, they could just as easily have said "Your wording here is offensive to me on a personal level." and most people I know who fight this SJ movement tooth and nail will honestly, sincerely apologize at that point. But if they forego a simple statement of their own feelings for one of guilt and blame and misplaced rage, then yes, we will fight back.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-06-22 12:57 am (UTC)(link)Use your words. You're not in Kindergarten anymore, you can't get what you want by crying and pointing.
I don't care if yelling dissuades people if their abhorrent behavior. Sometimes, abhorrent behavior deserves being yelled at, and the victim is allowed the satisfaction of yelling, full stop. Your FOCUS being on the spiritual GROWTH of the person in the WRONG is gross. I don't care if they're a horrible member of KKK. I don't care if they've really truly misspoke. I'm not their fucking mother, I'm the person they were just harmful and offensive to, and I don't CARE to teach them a lesson and make sure it sticks. I'd never be able to care about anything ELSE ever again if I had to become the personal fucking mentor to every person who thought "CHING CHONG CHING CHONG XD" was the height of humor.
You do realize that in the time people spend writing up paragraphs and essays about how my motives are caused by me being brainwashed by society into seeing the white heterosexual male being lifted onto a pedestal and me being okay with this is just a function of growing up in this society (which, again, these people have no clue who I am or where I'm from, they don't know what society I'm part of)
And those essays? If they're not about YOU then you don't have to apply them to YOU. Do you think there's anywhere that it does apply? If yes, then the essay is valid. If you think they're wrong, either ~ignore them~ or create a discussion, but don't do it like the entire essay was a personal attack on ~you~ if they were just using the general ~you~ goddamn.
I find it really hilarious that you use this phrasing "We will fight back" - which doesn't exactly involve the polite, calm/OR IGNORING recourse you were saying should be applied to confronting ignorant, hurtful people. But "fighting back tooth and nail" is appropriate when it involves you, and someone calling you bigoted, because that is the real offense that needs to be addressed.
Also, I have been dogpiled online multiple times, and no, it wasn't pleasant. Two of the times made me flounce from two different communities, in retrospect I realize I was wrong in once case, but it was absolutely harmless in the other. So no, I don't think being "dogpiled" by SJers is pleasant, or always in the right. But the amount of BAWING I see over this is ridiculous. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. I haven't seen this much childish sobbing since working at a daycare. "THEY SAID I HAD A BOOGER BRAIN BAWW" Do you have a booger brain? No? Okay then.
no subject
And yes, that might indeed have been a condescending tone. But again, if people are acting childishly towards me, surprise, I will treat them like a child. Revolutionary thinking, isn't it?
I can understand that racist and offensive jokes such as that are more harmful and annoying than they are EVER funny, and I'm sorry you have to put up with dumbasses being dumbasses. But I don't believe in jumping on somebody for every slight and every offense - accidents do happen, you already agreed that sometimes it's really an innocent slip. And you've also agreed that, when you're in that situation, it sucks. And I have to ask, when you're dogpiling people, do you stop to consider for a second that you MIGHT be accusing a perfectly nice and considerate person of being a privileged prejudiced smartass little punk, or do you just go at it with the blind conviction that they are, in fact, an irredeemable ethnocentric prick? And even if you don't actively engage in the dogpiling yourself, do you think those who do take the time to consider that they don't know the person they're all teaming up against?
Again, I'm not saying that things don't need to change. But if you consider yourself an activist for social justice, then it seems to me you've already taken up the burden. Even if you don't go out of your way to make sure everybody's fully informed, as I understand it, the point of "social justice" is to seek a more open-minded, less prejudiced environment. This isn't something that can be sought out with blind rage and vengeful tones. This is something that needs to be taught. Because if all you're after is yelling and bitching and making yourself feel better, that's not social justice, that's not activism, that's not helpful to the world at all. It's just more noise.
And for the record, yes, their demi-essays were directed at me and written about their interpretation of who I was based, sometimes, on a single sentence. These weren't even insults, bad jokes, hurtful names, no. These sentences have occasionally been as minor as my personal preference between two characters. Two characters, in fact, whose only differences were entirely superficial and physical. This was a personal attack on me, as a single individual. Yes, I felt the need to defend my character, because I refuse to be judged based on their preconceived notions.
Oh, did I just hit a tender spot? That wording sounds familiar... Possibly because that's what you seem to be facing, yourself, if I understand your implications. And here's the kicker: I "fought back" by explaining patiently for at least half a day how their assumptions were incorrect, baseless, insulting, irrelevant, or some combination thereof. Admittedly, as is happening here, my tone occasionally dipped into the sardonic and irritable tones of someone who is frustrated at having to repeat herself, but I started out very polite and calm, and only descended into frustration when diplomacy was once again apparently less than effective.
And no, not everybody's me. And I don't expect people to go to the lengths that I do (or beyond, like some others) to deal with every idiot that passes their way, but is it really too much to ask that people try - OCCASIONALLY - at least starting out with even a single decently polite sentence, rather than ALWAYS bombarding a completely innocent thought with full essays or name-calling or just outright yelling?